AAU, Woodstock and Twitter Jerk Fest

[JoleonLescottsHair]

“Talent infusion”

Leaving aside that the coaching has completely sucked (MM and TB), how many people here think we’d be worse than 2-3 at this point if Samba, Keon, Sean and CJ hadn’t transferred? Has the much-heralded talent infusion paid off? Has the plan to surround Tre with better players made a difference? Maybe, just maybe, chemistry, experience and hungry players actually matter.

MM coached really well his first season then rolled the dice on transfers in year 2. Fail. Year 3 ended with good coaching and incredible promise before cleaning house again with the ‘talent infusion.” Fail. Maybe the lesson here is to actually stick with a plan and BUILD something. Crazy idea. A team. Man, do I fucking hate college hoops in this AAU and Twitter recruitment era. Few coaches get it, the majority do not, including UMass.

[xlgman]

I agree Joleon.

23 players have transferred out of UMass since McCall arrived. Now 8 players on the roster are from the same high school and their HS coach is the first assistant. I don't care what you say, that is not how you build a durable, competitive program. Let me know when UMass decides to develop a real program again. I'm not holding my breath but I really hope it happens soon.

I considered myself a die hard and rabid fan of the program and college hoops overall for a long time, but I really just started losing interest in college hoops a few years ago when the transfers and coaching changes got completely out of control and our team continued to be uninspiring. It becomes very hard to invest time in the team when there is so much turnover AND the product stinks more often than not. This is not an indictment of individual players, it is a reflection of the trend of mediocrity and under-performing combined with so much turnover. IF we could get and keep 4 year players and develop them with a good coach and entertaining basketball, I would probably get interested again. Until then, I'll check in a couple times a year to see how things are going and watch games here and there.

It's SAD because I miss having that passion and I miss the back and forth banter on this board too! But my heart just isn't into it anymore. This coming from a guy who used to never miss a game as of a few years ago and now I only post here twice a year.

[Kelz626]

Samba and CJ weren’t A10 players and Keon was ridiculously inconsistent, this team would probably be 0-5 if we kept those 3 over someone like DeGray or McCrory. To try to lay this at the feet of Tony and the Woodstock players is utter bullshit. McCall lost the locker room in Chattanooga, and has failed with 3 different iterations of this team. What is the common denominator in that? Oh yeah McCall. Guy sucks in all facets of coaching. His offense is shit, how hard is it to figure out that if you have the best post player in the A10 you get him going early and that opens up shots for everyone else. McCall can’t inspire this team to play with effort and intensity and then makes his “big move” by pulling the starters and then quickly rushes them back in when Bryant’s lead starts to balloon ...really taught em a lesson Matty!

If it wasn’t for Bergeron, Tre and Woodstock McCall wouldn’t have a chance at UMass. Dude recruited: KTM, Samba, CJ Anderson, Laurent, Keon, Cobb, Chatman, Wood and Pierre. With the exception of Pierre and to an extent Keon all were complete non-factors. Can’t recruit, can’t coach, can’t get his team to play hard. Maybe we should stop blaming boogeymen like Twitter and AAU and actually address the real problem McCall is not a head coach and Bamford, like with most of his hires, fucked up and hired him

[JoleonLescottsHair]

Samba and CJ weren’t A10 players..

Maybe we should stop blaming boogeymen like Twitter and AAU and actually address the real problem...

Hmm, maybe we need some Northeast and Colonial conference level players so we can beat Bryant and NU? Given how flat this team is, I think I’d rather have CJ on the bench than DD on the floor. Not surprisingly, you completely missed the point of the post. Are “we” blaming “boogeyman” Twitter? No, one dude (me) made one post arguing that the prevailing trends and culture of college hoops (mass annual transfers, recruiting over guys, celebrating ranking over role and experience) has not served our program well. Nobody is blaming Twitter and of course MM and TB are responsible for the results. The results of a failed approach and strategy. The “real problem” if you will. That’s the point. I know, I know, slightly nuanced arguments are hard. Better to just call bullshit. Feels good.

[NilesGold]

“Talent infusion”

Leaving aside that the coaching has completely sucked (MM and TB), how many people here think we’d be worse than 2-3 at this point if Samba, Keon, Sean and CJ hadn’t transferred? Has the much-heralded talent infusion paid off? Has the plan to surround Tre with better players made a difference? Maybe, just maybe, chemistry, experience and hungry players actually matter.

MM coached really well his first season then rolled the dice on transfers in year 2. Fail. Year 3 ended with good coaching and incredible promise before cleaning house again with the ‘talent infusion.” Fail. Maybe the lesson here is to actually stick with a plan and BUILD something. Crazy idea. A team. Man, do I fucking hate college hoops in this AAU and Twitter recruitment era. Few coaches get it, the majority do not, including UMass.

It's possible that the players who left aren't talented enough for the program to succeed, while at the same time having more talented players isn't a cure-all.

Quite possible we wouldn't be any worse than 2-3, but I think it's unlikely we'd be any better than 2-3.

I think the vast majority of us agree that something with this team isn't right, and McCall is running out of time and acceptable excuses.

[JoleonLescottsHair]

It's possible that the players who left aren't talented enough for the program to succeed, while at the same time having more talented players isn't a cure-all.

...but I think it's unlikely we'd be any better than 2-3

Yes, it is possible. In this case, I don’t agree. But it is not an unreasonable theory.

Consider that last year’s squad, with said departed players, finished 5-3, including wins over GMU, SLU, VCU, a dog fight against #6 Dayton, and one bad call away from from beating URI. That was against A10 competition, not Bryant and NU. I think last year’s roster has this team sitting at 4-1 at this point. Maybe 5-0.

[Floyd]

I have conflicting thoughts on the talent thing. I was as big of a Sean East fan as there was on here, and while I hated to see him go, I have to admit that Noah has been one of the more steady & consistent players so far. I still think Sean could have helped this team, but I understand the wanting to be the guy at Pg, and his reason for leaving.
I like Ronnie DeGray and think he'll be an important guy moving forward. Samba seemed like a good dude, but to me DeGray has a much bigger upside

We just gotta get rolling a little bit. Nobody has been super hot yet, and in the games we lost, we were a play or two from winning. Not an excuse because guys have been off a bit, but some of the in game moves and strategy has seemed underwhelming . The chemistry just isn't there yet, and we'll see if it comes around or if its an issye like Joleon has presented

I also agree with a little of what xlgman pointed out. College game isn't what it used to be with all the transferring and roster turnover.

[DanaDingle3]

Ya, I somewhat agree with the talent thing, but more so due to the loss of intensity guys like Keon and Samba brought. That said, I don't think our record would be any better. The end of A10 play Joleon cited was, in part, due to Santos. We miss him.

I agree with xlgman's sentiment, but I'm hooked enough right now to roll with it. What I'm not ok with is the head coach. Bergeron was not going to be the silver bullet as an assistant, and I don't lay blame on him given the totality of McCall's three plus years and inability to adjust in-game, inspire, etc. He doesn't have it.

[JoleonLescottsHair]

Floyd, XLGMan, and DanaDingle: to me it isn’t necessarily about comparing, say, Noah and Sean or Garcia and Clergeot or Samba and DeGray. I would’t necessarily disagree that the new guys are better head to head. But it is about the overall make up and role each guy plays. How their game and experience complements and strengthens our best players like Tre. How they hustle, how their minutes dictate overall PT and any ripple effect. To me, the best team isn’t always the best players, but rather the right mix of players (that and coaching, which has blown this year). I believe that mix, that chemistry, was starting to really come together last season. They played much better D, they took better shots, they hustled. Something to build on with a familiarity and year under their belt playing together. Then the staff blew it up (again) and now here we sit at a shitty 2-3 even as we are supposedly so much more talented.

And, yes, we definitely miss Santos. No doubt, But he wasn’t the only guy bringing it at the end of last season.

[DanaDingle3]

That looks right to me. And the HC decisions (presumably) that led to those guys leaving, and failing to maintain continuity might be the nails in the coffin for MM. Similar to the 2nd year transfers, ya. Having to reload b/c guys jump to the pros is one thing, but just looking for the next quick fix is another.

Ultimately, I think it has more to do with the NCAA than AAU, Twitter, etc., but whatever it is, it's not helping college hoops.

[LS71]

Unless/until this infusion of talent is coached properly, we'll never know. This group is even younger than last year's team so coaching is even more important...both on and off the court\, given the pandemic.

Did MM really coach well in year 1? I mean the expectations bar was set pretty low given the circumstances of his hire, so their winning two of their last three including a game in the A-10 tournament that left us feeling pret-tay, pret-tay, pret-tay good.

But, they limped home. Only the 2-OT win against Dayton kept them from losing 12 straight

[JoleonLescottsHair]

Did MM really coach well in year 1? I mean the expectations bar was set pretty low given the circumstances of his hire, so their winning two of their last three including a game in the A-10 tournament that left us feeling pret-tay, pret-tay, pret-tay good.

I think he did. He had next to nothing and they were in most every game. Once they got to league play they would just run out of gas about half way through the second half of each game. But they played hard all year and they beat Providence and Georgia. Ironically, I think MM’s best game as a coach might have been the OT loss to GMU where we only had 4 or 5 scholarship players. Unbelievable effort to stay in that one. That was the start of one killer loss after another to fucking George Mason. I say ironic because this last game- again versus GMU- was probably his worst game as a coach.

[Floyd]

Sometimes that makes me think Joleon, that sticking to a smaller rotation is better. Guys get more time to get in the flow of the game and aren't getting yanked every few minutes. Trying to get everyone time kills the continuity sometimes I think.

This group from top to bottom is probably one of the more talented groups we've had in a few years. Like to see someone step up a little and take over that big rebounder role, but other than that, this team looks well rounded and balanced enough to be playing better. Gotta figure it out before things implode

[JoleonLescottsHair]

Sometimes that makes me think Joleon, that sticking to a smaller rotation is better

Agree. It is a weird paradox, but McCall seems to have done better when he has less talent. Year one and again last year late when he tightened the rotation down the stretch. That’s what I meant when I said I’d rather see CJ on the bench than DD (or Walker at this point) on the floor. Regardless of the rotation, however, the game time decisions against GMU were just horrific. As someone else pointed out, we lost that game 3 times. Total deer in the headlights. Even though I hate the constant roster turnover, I was ready to believe MM and TB had done well setting up this season, but that was such a singularly bad game that it will take a monumental turnaround for me to think they can regain control of the ship. I still can’t believe they choked that away. Just absolutely brutal. McCall envisions and says the right things, but the results just aren’t there.

[DanaDingle3]

If they're going to play a slower pace, a smaller rotation makes sense. I might've misunderstood, but I thought the goal was to run and press and play with pace, while playing a lot of guys and wearing other teams down.

The offense is slow, or at least not particularly fast. The press is in and out, hit or miss, with more miss than hit, and we have guys coming in and out with no rhythm.

It's all just kind of a mess, and there's no reason to think MM can right the ship. I'm generally not a fan of mid-season changes, but if the next few games are anything like what we've seen, I think you have to.