Who should stay, who should go

[harbo]

Already being discussed in many places on this site. Here is a quick one-stop place to vote and discuss.

[m626t]

I voted for the majority (so far) choice; that's unusual.

[Quann]

Bamford isn't going anywhere unless Coach Joe turns into a disaster (I hope not). Frank will be back.

[WillHerndonFan]

Bamford isn't going anywhere unless Coach Joe turns into a disaster (I hope not). Frank will be back.

May need COVID-era cardboard fans if Frank is back as season tickets should see another drop as it is hard to pay for tickets when starting players make more than than the season ticket holder base and the product sucks!

[minutefanjsf]

Bamford isn't going anywhere unless Coach Joe turns into a disaster (I hope not). Frank will be back.

Or….if coach Joe turns into a football version of Calipari Bamford could go…..

[eldonabe]

I said both need to go. My feeling on Bamford have been disclosed multiple times here - he should have been long go a few years ago.

I flip flop on Frank every week.

PROS
- He still has some name recognition
- He is a good X&O guy with the right
- He failed miserably this year, but he is normally a decent player development guy

CONS
- He really needs the right players or his system fails
- He lets the current NIL system bother him too much
- His style does not fit in today's player landscape



Next year will be really interesting to watch. I am going to set a low bar here, but I still think they struggle to meet it. They need to make their conference tourney next season at minimum. As of right now, I am not confident they will so that is where I sit. I would be surprised if more than 4 players from the current roster are here on September 1st.

IDGAF what their recruiting/portal class looks like - he needs to coach up whomever he brings in regardless. He allegedly had a great class last year and look what that got him.

[NilesGold]

Next year will be really interesting to watch. I am going to set a low bar here, but I still think they struggle to meet it. They need to make their conference tourney next season at minimum. As of right now, I am not confident they will so that is where I sit.

Well holy shit.

It's my understanding that UMass' NIL budget will be much larger than any other MAC program and Frank makes far more than any other MAC HC.

If in Frank's 4th season here, after a really poor 3rd season, UMass can't muster at minimum a top 4 finish in the MAC (it really should be top 2)... it would be a huge disappointment and an indefensible outcome and if we hadn't given him a contract that essentially leaves UMass without a buyout option Frank should be fired.

[eldonabe]

Next year will be really interesting to watch. I am going to set a low bar here, but I still think they struggle to meet it. They need to make their conference tourney next season at minimum. As of right now, I am not confident they will so that is where I sit.

Well holy shit.

It's my understanding that UMass' NIL budget will be much larger than any other MAC program and Frank makes far more than any other MAC HC.

If in Frank's 4th season here, after a really poor 3rd season, UMass can't muster at minimum a top 4 finish in the MAC (it really should be top 2)... it would be a huge disappointment and an indefensible outcome and if we hadn't given him a contract that essentially leaves UMass without a buyout option Frank should be fired.

The money matters up to a point. There is still a good amount curb appeal that Umass and MAC simply do not have.

The BYU thing is really interesting the more I think about it BYU is a on outlier in terms of national basketball prominence. They make the tourney 40%-50% of the time and rarely make any noise. BUT they also play in the Big 12 - that closes the deal.

If that kid they signed had a $7M offer from Umass and BYU where is he going - 10 out of 10 times he is going to BYU.


I laid this out in another thread - Umass needs to understand where they are and embrace it rather than complain about it. They play in a bad conference and have been an afterthought for 2 decades (sans - 1 blind squirrel finds nut season) . Anyone who thinks that simply outspending everyone else in the conference automatically means conference champs is a fool. Didn't Umass just have a 20+ win season and follow up with the best recruiting class in the A-10 only to lose 20 games (and look pretty bad doing so)?


I am a glass half full person - I know it doesn't seem that way, but that is because I also try to be a realist and the two do not go together in the case of Umass Hoops. Umass will likely struggle next year as they will have a small nucleus to from which to build on and that pesky curb appeal problem to try to attract some game changing player(s). Money may make a difference, but Umass has fucked up every wet dream possible over the last 40 years, so until proven otherwise history is bound to repeat itself.

[NilesGold]

^ But we’re talking about how UMass will fare vs other MAC schools, not compared to the power conference schools. If they can’t finish top 4 in the MAC, at minimum, there’s no one to blame but Frank. They have the money to pay players far more than any other MAC team… if they can’t get the right players that’s on Frank.

[minutefanjsf]

^ But we’re talking about how UMass will fare vs other MAC schools, not compared to the power conference schools. If they can’t finish top 4 in the MAC, at minimum, there’s no one to blame but Frank. They have the money to pay players far more than any other MAC team… if they can’t get the right players that’s on Frank.

Kids who aspire to play Midwest MAC basketball do not know anything about UMass. Believe it or not, UMass is a hard sell for recruits. Frank is how we got Cross, Diggins, DHS, Curry, etc. Yes, UMass has national level facilities and a great education. Those things have not been attracting top talent. It is a culture issue that is the fault of the AD and administration. The slick athletics jargon filled talk is all talk, no guts, no glory, no substance.

[NilesGold]

Kids who aspire to play Midwest MAC basketball do not know anything about UMass. Believe it or not, UMass is a hard sell for recruits. Frank is how we got Cross, Diggins, DHS, Curry, etc. Yes, UMass has national level facilities and a great education. Those things have not been attracting top talent. It is a culture issue that is the fault of the AD and administration. The slick athletics jargon filled talk is all talk, no guts, no glory, no substance.

No one aspires to play "midwest MAC basketball". I would say almost no one has aspired to play A10 basketball in a long time, if ever. Kids aspire to play D1 basketball, maybe at a power conference, maybe at one of the premier basketball schools, or for a currently well-known coach.

That being said, the biggest factor in where they go is probably not where they aspire or dream of playing. The #1 factor in where they ultimately go is probably $ now and $ they think they can get in future years (either from the same school, or using this school as a spring board to another one).

[minutefanjsf]

Kids who aspire to play Midwest MAC basketball do not know anything about UMass. Believe it or not, UMass is a hard sell for recruits. Frank is how we got Cross, Diggins, DHS, Curry, etc. Yes, UMass has national level facilities and a great education. Those things have not been attracting top talent. It is a culture issue that is the fault of the AD and administration. The slick athletics jargon filled talk is all talk, no guts, no glory, no substance.

No one aspires to play "midwest MAC basketball". I would say almost no one has aspired to play A10 basketball in a long time, if ever. Kids aspire to play D1 basketball, maybe at a power conference, maybe at one of the premier basketball schools, or for a currently well-known coach.

That being said, the biggest factor in where they go is probably not where they aspire or dream of playing. The #1 factor in where they ultimately go is probably $ now and $ they think they can get in future years (either from the same school, or using this school as a spring board to another one).

There are definitely kids who want to play in certain regions/schools who know their ceiling. There are also kids who have and definitely still want to play in the A10. Money, school, and coach all still matter. UMass has a coach that can attract players and some money. We don’t have the school reputation/culture.

[eldonabe]

There are definitely kids who want to play in certain regions/schools who know their ceiling. There are also kids who have and definitely still want to play in the A10. Money, school, and coach all still matter. UMass has a coach that can attract players and some money. We don’t have the school reputation/culture.

I am not so sure that is the case any more. Frank is crazy and that is his reputation.

[NilesGold]

There are definitely kids who want to play in certain regions/schools who know their ceiling. There are also kids who have and definitely still want to play in the A10. Money, school, and coach all still matter. UMass has a coach that can attract players and some money. We don’t have the school reputation/culture.

Let me see if I have this right… you think there are kids who desire to play in the MAC specifically, and furthermore they would rather play for less NIL $ at one of the Midwest MAC schools than UMass (coach preference not factored in)?

So your claim is that if you take out the coach, UMass is in a worse position to attract players than the other MAC schools… do I have that right?

[eldonabe]

There are definitely kids who want to play in certain regions/schools who know their ceiling. There are also kids who have and definitely still want to play in the A10. Money, school, and coach all still matter. UMass has a coach that can attract players and some money. We don’t have the school reputation/culture.

Let me see if I have this right… you think there are kids who desire to play in the MAC specifically, and furthermore they would rather play for less NIL $ at one of the Midwest MAC schools than UMass (coach preference not factored in)?

So your claim is that if you take out the coach, UMass is in a worse position to attract players than the other MAC schools… do I have that right?

Money will matter up to a point, but it is not the be all, end all. And honestly, unless you are really honed in a a specific kid or two for the right reasons, do you really want kids who are only about chasing the money. You will have a team full of Ajmal Basit's if that is the case, and you will never see players stick for more than 1 season.

That formula can work, but you are going to need:

- The right coach
- The right mix of players
- a lot of luck


Frank is not the right guy for this - you simply cannot beat on kids like he does and expect them to stay and many will probably check-out before the season is over because they know they can just hit the portal with no repercussions.

The mix of players is the biggest problem - if you only attract "in it for the money" they are playing for the next contract only and not for the team. And if you need to completely restock every year (which Umass will need to) you need a hit across the board or else - the Aj Basit reference.

The odds are extremely low for any meaningful success as Umass is currently constructed.


Like I said, maybe they make the MAC playoffs next season - that seems like failure to many of you, but that would be a move in the right direction as far as I am concerned.