Coach Frank Martin

[Marty Peretz]

Niles was way nicer with McCall, I think he gave him a couple of seasons before he wanted him gone. And I think that McCall was far far far worse than what Martin is doing right now. After years of McCall, I'm grateful with what we have right now.

McCall was absolutely worse than Martin but that's because he was a pretty garbage recruiter. X's and O's wise offensively McCall was actually pretty good but he couldn't get accomplished players and he couldn't get them to give great effort defensively. But regardless, the reason I'm giving Frank less time than Matt has nothing to do with liking one more than the other and everything to do with the simple fact that the portal has completely changed the game and we have no idea who's coming back next year. The timeframe under which rebuilds used to take place is no longer the same. Like it or not you're now building rosters year to year. As such, assessments of coaches should be made in the context of individual seasons rather than two or three years. There's so much roster turnover now that the here and now means more than it did in the past because there's no assurance that a guy's going to stay. Sure, that was true in the past too but sitting out an entire year was a real burden and came with risk so some borderline guys who maybe didn't love the coach might just stick around rather than deal with a full sit out year.

McCall's first year was always a wash because four of his scholarships were used by guys sitting out and another guy had to retire from hoops after a heart condition emerged. So comparing the Martin tenure to the McCall tenure is not apples to apples. The portal (and now NIL) has permanently altered the nature of managing a roster year-to-year.

[vanmeter]

Marty
A tremendous assessment!

[DanaDingle3]

Totally. I'm glad Bracket Forecast brought up Jerome Tang in the spaces the other night. First year head coach guiding a team picked to finish last in a brutal Big 12, has them gunning for a 1 seed. That's obviously an outlier, but coaches can win in year 1 with the portal. Frank is not a first year head coach, and if he wants to play his underqualified son big minutes, that comes w consequences.

I'm happy he's our coach, but the honeymoon period isn't what it used to be, especially if the coach is getting paid.

[vanmeter]

Another great example
Iowa State 2-22 in pandemic year, fires their coach.
Hires T,J, Otzelberger. In first year goes 22-13 and gets to elite 8 in NCAA tournament.
This year ranked 12 at 14-3 (and thus before they just beat #7 Texas on Tuesday.
With portals things can change (for better or worse) almost immediately

[inthescoop]

Niles was way nicer with McCall, I think he gave him a couple of seasons before he wanted him gone. And I think that McCall was far far far worse than what Martin is doing right now. After years of McCall, I'm grateful with what we have right now.

McCall was absolutely worse than Martin but that's because he was a pretty garbage recruiter. X's and O's wise offensively McCall was actually pretty good but he couldn't get accomplished players and he couldn't get them to give great effort defensively. But regardless, the reason I'm giving Frank less time than Matt has nothing to do with liking one more than the other and everything to do with the simple fact that the portal has completely changed the game and we have no idea who's coming back next year. The timeframe under which rebuilds used to take place is no longer the same. Like it or not you're now building rosters year to year. As such, assessments of coaches should be made in the context of individual seasons rather than two or three years. There's so much roster turnover now that the here and now means more than it did in the past because there's no assurance that a guy's going to stay. Sure, that was true in the past too but sitting out an entire year was a real burden and came with risk so some borderline guys who maybe didn't love the coach might just stick around rather than deal with a full sit out year.

McCall's first year was always a wash because four of his scholarships were used by guys sitting out and another guy had to retire from hoops after a heart condition emerged. So comparing the Martin tenure to the McCall tenure is not apples to apples. The portal (and now NIL) has permanently altered the nature of managing a roster year-to-year.

*nods head*

Fair.

[Camby4Life]

The hate towards Frank on this thread halfway through year 1 is weird to see. His resume has more success than any first year coach we have had here. I knew his personality would rub some locals the wrong way but I wasn’t expecting this. We have been a losing program for an extended time, the small fan base that we have left running out a first year coach like Frank just doesn’t seem right.

[capezona]

Yeah, I'm pretty much done reading this thread.

[69MG]

Yeah, I'm pretty much done reading this thread.

Yep. This got gotten to a very bad place. I'm done with this tread as well.

[Not Trigger]

Fellowship of the Miserable

[Sheck]

I like to think of it as free therapy.

[vanmeter]

Marty's post, which I agreed with, is 100% accurate. I see no instance where he is dissing Frank or 'running him out of town.' If anyone finds negativity in it, please correct me.

He is simply stating the obvious that with the transfer portal the way it is, success with teams can be measured in many instances on a yearly basis.

From a personal viewpoint, I always consider the first year of a new head coach a 'pass.' This goes for both Don Brown and Frank Martin.
Frank came here in April and had to assemble a coaching staff, assess the players he inherited, and then try to fill in the squad thru the portal. The timing is such that he is behind the 8 ball in trying to recruit all that he needs. And while some coaches have been able to do that immediately (re Kansas State, Iowa State) it is the exception rather than the rule.

That being said, with players transferring everywhere, for the second season, there is every reason to expect a successful program for UMass fighting for an NCAA berth and top 4 in conference. As Marty indicated, in the past, it could take 4 or so years to elevate a program. Now not so long.

Much of Frank's success next year may also depend on who can keep from going into the portal. Retaining key players and adding thru the portal is the ingredients to success.

I very much wish him well!

[Camby4Life]

My post wasn’t a response to Marty’s. It is a response to the cumulative buildup of 50 pages and counting here as well as every other thread. Every game post is taken over by bitching about playing time of a certain player.

I haven’t seen this amount of hate towards a first year Umass coach. Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions, but it feels like a personality issue, which was expected.

[minutefanjsf]

My post wasn’t a response to Marty’s. It is a response to the cumulative buildup of 50 pages and counting here as well as every other thread. Every game post is taken over by bitching about playing time of a certain player.

I haven’t seen this amount of hate towards a first year Umass coach. Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions, but it feels like a personality issue, which was expected.

Agree. I’ve heard a few Amherst locals say Frank’s “antics are not Amherst friendly”. Many also then blast the player getting the PT. My take is that the player knows how to earn playing time-it’s not being related, it’s working hard all the time. Matt Cross is getting 3x the minutes of Gapare over the season and 4x recently (8:32). Not one is blinking an eye at that. TJ weeks is getting more than double Gapare’s minutes. Production or lack of production if it were the measure plays out like this-Gapare has turned the ball over 19 times and the player has turned it over 23 in about half the minutes. The player is averaging almost 3x the rebounds. Gapare has more PF per minute played by a long shot. The player has 3x the assists as Gapare. Gapare is averaging the same number of points in half the time. Yes, Gapare is a much more skilled player than anyone on the team. Yes the player is related to the coach. Gapare is a raw freshman talent that is wildly inconsistent-can’t be relied on, yet. Gapare right now is a better scorer. He will hopefully be around and earn PT and dominate.

[NilesGold]

My post wasn’t a response to Marty’s. It is a response to the cumulative buildup of 50 pages and counting here as well as every other thread. Every game post is taken over by bitching about playing time of a certain player.

I haven’t seen this amount of hate towards a first year Umass coach. Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions, but it feels like a personality issue, which was expected.

Agree. I’ve heard a few Amherst locals say Frank’s “antics are not Amherst friendly”.

You aren't going to please everyone, and complaining about the complaints of a small % of the fanbase is frivolous. I'm fine with coaches showing frustration and emotion, but I'd be lying if I said I liked all of Frank's antics like yelling at players and staff, but I'm not concerned about it, nor have I ever expressed a concern with it.

Yes, Gapare is a much more skilled player than anyone on the team. Yes the player is related to the coach. Gapare is a raw freshman talent that is wildly inconsistent-can’t be relied on, yet. Gapare right now is a better scorer. He will hopefully be around and earn PT and dominate.

I think Gapare should get more playing time when games are already decided, and your statistical analysis doesn't take into consideration his impact on the overall offense and defense of the team (it's far better than Brandon's), but giving specifically Gapare more time isn't a huge concern of mine... much more frustrating is the limited minutes Frank is giving to Luis & Dominguez, plus some of the frankenstein lineups he trots out.

[minutefanjsf]

My post wasn’t a response to Marty’s. It is a response to the cumulative buildup of 50 pages and counting here as well as every other thread. Every game post is taken over by bitching about playing time of a certain player.

I haven’t seen this amount of hate towards a first year Umass coach. Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions, but it feels like a personality issue, which was expected.

Agree. I’ve heard a few Amherst locals say Frank’s “antics are not Amherst friendly”.

You aren't going to please everyone, and complaining about the complaints of a small % of the fanbase is frivolous. I'm fine with coaches showing frustration and emotion, but I'd be lying if I said I liked all of Frank's antics like yelling at players and staff, but I'm not concerned about it, nor have I ever expressed a concern with it.

Yes, Gapare is a much more skilled player than anyone on the team. Yes the player is related to the coach. Gapare is a raw freshman talent that is wildly inconsistent-can’t be relied on, yet. Gapare right now is a better scorer. He will hopefully be around and earn PT and dominate.

I think Gapare should get more playing time when games are already decided, and your statistical analysis doesn't take into consideration his impact on the overall offense and defense of the team (it's far better than Brandon's), but giving specifically Gapare more time isn't a huge concern of mine... much more frustrating is the limited minutes Frank is giving to Luis & Dominguez, plus some of the frankenstein lineups he trots out.

I am not complaining about people not liking Frank’s demeanor. I think that folks are using that as cover for the complaints that follow was my point. Sorry it wasn’t clear. I do think that group who don’t like his antics will increase, especially if the wins don’t start coming. My points about player comparisons are somewhat in line with your thoughts. I assume you are using +/- as the measure for offense and defense. The “Frankenstein lineups” contain more Brandon than others due to his PT. Dominguez is getting more minutes than Brandon now, on average about the same for the season. Luis was getting more minutes until the injury. It’s the middle of the first season and things are still settling. If moving forward, the skilled players don’t get more minutes and seem to be showing their increased consistent effort, that would be something I’d complain about, for sure. The trend however, seems to be that they are getting more minutes as the season goes on. TBH honest, I don’t care who plays if they play hard and win.