Politics

[Quann]

Well Islam better go through a serious reformation and fast. I just don't see it happening within the next 50 years.

[njumass08]

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah

- John Lennon

Everyone would be a lot happier if they stopped believing in imaginary people.

[MJatUM]

^^ Really a pathetic response ktabz, even by your standards. SO because Quann is (allegedly, not sure he's posted his views here although I suspect you are correct) a Christian Republican and some Christian Republicans say unconscionable things about the LGBT community, he is not allowed to be critical of Islam? I would say the overwhelming majority of people that identify as Christian don't agree with the examples you posted, similar to the way the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't condone this act in Orlando or support ISIS.

I don't for one second agree with the notion that all of Islam is bad and we should just nuke the middle east and other ignorant shit you see on the interwebs. What is UNBELIEVABLE to me is how the first thing you see out of many news outlets is when ANOTHER despicable act is committed in the name of ISIS, ON AMERICAN SOIL, they feel the need to remind everyone that not all Islamic people are violent.

Or in some other cases, specifically on this board, to remind people that in the FUCKING 900's Christianity killed people in the name of religion. THE 900's!! It's 2016 and we're reprimanding Christians for what zealots did in the name of that religion a thousand to several hundreds of years ago.

I've written and deleted this post about 5 times today because I just don't have the stamina to get into it on this board in this thread. Eventually it boiled over so here we are... Let's go.

[Quann]

Not a Republican, barely a Christian (confirmed Catholic but I really don't practice). Overall not really a fan of any monotheistic religion. I dislike Islam because of how their culture treats women, LGBT, and overall anybody different from them (like stoning of gays or jailing of women that cry rape and are accused of adultery). I dislike Islam because there is no separation of church and state in those countries i.e. Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. I believe in universal equal human rights for everyone. Keep defending a religion that at its core is the enemy of Western liberal values. Our president keeps twisting himself into a pretzel to not name the actual enemy that we face.

[UMass87]

...
Or in some other cases, specifically on this board, to remind people that in the FUCKING 900's Christianity killed people in the name of religion. THE 900's!! It's 2016 and we're reprimanding Christians for what zealots did in the name of that religion a thousand to several hundreds of years ago.
...

WTF are you talking about. You do realize that Christians are killing thousands of people in Africa right now in the name of Christianity, right? Get a grip. We have millions of mentally deficient Christians who believe the Ten Commandments should be the law of this land. Need I remind you that the first four are:

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

these morons believe humans lived with dinosaurs, that the Earth was created 10,000 years ago, that evolution is proven incorrect by The Bible. Some of them go out and murder doctors and other people with whom they disagree.

[MJatUM]

Africa. Really? We're citing Africa? Pick a country out of a hat and there's one group killing anyone and everyone that disagrees with them.

[UMass87]

Africa. Really? We're citing Africa? Pick a country out of a hat and there's one group killing anyone and everyone that disagrees with them.

Oh, I get it. Because they're in Africa it doesn't count. Pretty deep thinker, aren't you?

[JoleonLescottsHair]

Africa. Really? We're citing Africa? Pick a country out of a hat...

Um, Africa is not a country...

[eldonabe]

It's more stupidity on Hillary's part than corruption. She should have known better. I have no hatred for her, she'll just be a continuation of the Obama presidency and 16 years of reckless government spending will continue.

I've got no dog in this 2 headed election, I'll be voting for Gary Johnson, I'm hoping he can at least get 10 percent nationally in November.

Eight years of that 16 years of spending drove the unemployment rate below 5% and staved off a Great Depression.

The ONLY thing you accomplish by voting for Gary Johnson is the ability to say "I didn't vote for them" no matter who wins. Voting for a candidate who has zero chance of winning is simply moral masturbation - ya you didn't vote for the lesser of two evils. It won't matter to anyone but you and will have zero impact on anyone's life. Voting for Clinton or Trump will decide what path the Supreme Court takes and will impact everyone's life.

While that did happen, that is only circumstantial at best. You or I could have been sitting in office for the last 8 years and the cause / effect would have been about the same. The President is not much more than a head coach, they take too much blame and get too much credit. The Fed is most responsible and they barely have control of this and I would argue that they have NO control either. The economy drives the economy. The Fed reports "actual" results which (if you have not noticed) ALWAYS get revised and usually for the worse. Then they GUESS what will happen in the future - and their bating average on guessing is sub .100. They can say whatever they want, they don't drive anything, they have to react like everyone else. NOTHING the fed has done has had the effected that the Fed has predicted it would.

They (the entire government) continues to give out money and enable everyone who thinks it's free - god forbid people actually earn it when the government is passing it out like candy. Why should people become a productive member of society when they can watch TV and hang out all day instead doing something of value for the same rate of pay..... The government has done this to themselves and it is too far gone to pull the plug or the country will crash and burn. So republicans don't really cut back out of fear (even though they say they would), and the democrats spend because it is their inherent belief to fund the world without a safety net.

[UMass87]

Eldonabe - Sorry but the Bush/Obama stimulus (ARRA 2009-2011 roughly $500B) was not business as usual and if you think the economy would have reacted the same in its absence then please explain why. It's pretty easy for me to make an argument that juicing the economy by spending 10% of GDP on real goods and services effectively avoided a massive depression.

[eldonabe]

Eldonabe - Sorry but the Bush/Obama stimulus (ARRA 2009-2011 roughly $500B) was not business as usual and if you think the economy would have reacted the same in its absence then please explain why. It's pretty easy for me to make an argument that juicing the economy by spending 10% of GDP on real goods and services effectively avoided a massive depression.

You are 100% correct - but Obabma/Bush did not actually do it -- that is the point. They just happen to be sitting in the oval office so they get "credit" for it. Like I said, you or I could be sitting there and the same thing (more or less) would happen. (BTW - these two are from the opposite party - thus making my point) This was and is much bigger than POTUS - they have not personally "fixed" jack shit.

The irony of it from a political standpoint is that Conservative Republican Bush took over a balanced (and profitable) balance sheet from a Spending Democrat and handed it off to a Spending Democrat who was only printing money to cover the checks that had already been written....

Everybody wants to put blame in a box and point fingers across the political divide - they are ALL the same and pretty equally share the blame as far as I am concerned. I am cynical that way I guess, but regardless of which party is in control - the same things happen anyways.


It is a macrocosm of our DK debates... we all really do have the same basic goal - just two very different opinions as to how we think Umass should get there.

[Marshmont_63]

Such a tragic event this weekend. My condolences go out to all the victims and their families. I'll never understand how and why people can hate other people so much that they're willing to die. On another note, when do people in this country finally wake up and demand more stringent gun control measures like background checks. I understand that some criminals will get their hands on guns even if they were completely banned in this country, but the argument that if people had guns they could stop these people is stupid in my mind. The result (in this situation) would be everyone shooting people randomly and accidentally. And for the love of god, why the hell do we allow people to buy AR-15 assault rifles?!? COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. ALL military-grade weapons should be banned in this country. You don't feel safe? Fine, buy a handgun. You don't need anything more than that.

[MJatUM]

Agreed. I don't understand the argument that "they will just find guns from somewhere else." The argument I do understand is that it is a stepping stone towards stricter gun laws that could lead to making guns very difficult to obtain for normal people. There is also the issue that occurs with the no-fly list, where normal people happen to have the same name as someone on the list and get unnecessarily hassled every time they fly.

There is no doubt that this coward should not have been able to purchase these guns legally. There needs to be a system to prevent this from happening but it needs to be crafted appropriately and not hastily pushed through on the heels of a tragedy.

[UMass87]

It is looking more and more like Mateen was a closeted homosexual who couldn't deal with his gayness and used Islamic terror groups as one more attempt to hide from truth. But let's blame "the Muslims" anyway? Right, MJatUM?

[MJatUM]

I think you're mixing up posters here, but yes it does look like he used ISIS to cover up his actual homosexuality. I doubt his father's teachings of homosexuality as a sin punishable by death had anything to do with the internal angst that caused him to snap, right?

I don't think I said we should "blame the Muslims." I think my point was that another mass murder was committed IN THE NAME OF ISIS (regardless of whether this was the true reason or not - it was committed in their name and they were all too eager to gobble up responsibility for it) - the media spent the better part of Sunday reminding everyone that not all Muslims are in ISIS.

What I think is ironic (probably not the correct use of the word) is that we probably can blame "the Muslims" - at least the Muslims he grew up with - for this one for teaching him that he would be killed if he came out of the closet.