Comparing talent

Anything and everything that is UMass Minutemen Basketball.

Is the talent there!

yes
38
75%
no
13
25%
 
Total votes: 51

JD
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Post by JD » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:12 pm

george259 wrote:You cannot say that freeman is the only one with a shot to the NBA. Bowers and Maxwell are both very good freshmen, and their future is unknown. Kerry Kittles averaged 9 points a game as a freshmen at Nova, and now look where he is
George, I would love to see these kids make it to the NBA, because most of them probably dream about doing just that. But it is only a dream...

Some math for you...

There are 29 NBA teams.

There are 435 players currently in the NBA.

58 of them are rookies this year - not all rookies are grads of D1 colleges this year. Many oversees players are chosen.

There are 326 D1 basketball schools. That equates to about 4,890 players....

That means around 1% or less of players currently enrolled in school and playing D1 basketball will make it to the NBA.

Those are long odds. Hope Maxwell and Bowers make the most of their education while at UMass.

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InnervisionsUMASS
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Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:45 pm

and every other college b-ball player has those odds against them too... remember that
Stop waiting for UMass to do something big and help UMass do something big. - Shades

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Post by samdunk » Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:59 pm

Freeman is not even close. He has alot to learn in the next 3 yrs. He's basically a low post player right now, and is good against same size or smaller players. He"s small to play inside against the NBA. Does he even have an outside shot of anykind?
"Nobody told me there'd be days like these!"

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Post by krkess » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:18 pm

One of Lappas' selling points to recruits is the number of NBA players that he has produced. He emphasizes that they will play a well rounded game for him, that they won't be forced into narrow roles. If he is true to that, I would expect Freeman to develop an outside shot, something he would need in the NBA.

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Post by Will_Noyes » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:39 pm

I would say that Freeman and Bowers have the best shots at getting a look. Freeman does need work as has been pointed out, but he should improve, but I think that with an outside shot he could be a solid NBA player, not a superstar, but someone who could add depth to an existing team. Bowers may be more of a gamble. If he plays effectivly he could be a bigger star than Freeman or miss entirely who knows.
Nope

Chemical Ali
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Post by Chemical Ali » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:18 am

Could someone please explain to me why Artie Bowers and his 33% shooting touch is somehow an NBA prospect? The word delusion comes to mind. I don't wish to rag on a Minuteman and I obviously hope he develops into a good player, but he was hardly a Division I prospect last season let alone a future NBA player. MoMax, Viggiano, Lee, Chadwick and Lasme in limited minutes all had better seasons and yet people incredibly cite Bowers.

On the other hand, with two future NBA players on the roster maybe Coach Lappas should have pulled off a few more than 10 wins.

Incredible.

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R&G
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Post by R&G » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:33 am

Ali, the kid was a freshman and he improved greatly as the season went on. He also made the A10 rookie team. Take a pill.

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Post by Chemical Ali » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:53 am

R&G wrote:Ali, the kid was a freshman and he improved greatly as the season went on. He also made the A10 rookie team. Take a pill.
Oh yeah, he was a freshman. Almost forgot how much Coach Lappas reminded us of that throughout the season. Bowers "improved greatly"? Whoa. Based on what criteria? You mean the less than 30% shooting in the last ten games of the season? He had ONE good stretch of 3 games at the end of January. Prior to and after that he was incredibly inconsistent at best. He didn't improve simply because you thought it makes sense that he would.

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Post by R&G » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:27 pm

First of all, it's pretty clear that you DO "wish to rag on a minuteman." Second, don't you think it's a tad irrational to say that he's "hardly a Division 1 prospect" when he gets voted to the A10 Rookie team? Last, he shot 30.6% and averaged 9.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg and 3.7 apg in the last 10 games. Pretty good numbers, freshman or otherwise. Most importantly, he shot .426 from 3 pt land over the last 13 games as opposed to .279 for the first 16.

What exactly is your agenda for ripping Bowers?

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Post by Chapel Hill Minuteman » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:40 pm

Hardly a D 1 prospect? Wasn't Bowers rated in the top 50? How the hell is that hardly a D1 prospect?

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Post by Chemical Ali » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:41 pm

R&G wrote: he shot 30.6%
My mistake, 30.6%.

No agenda. I just don't enjoy watching our prgram go to absolute shit under Lappas and then listening to people mindlessly cite his line about how we "showed improvement" and were a "young team." Artie Bowers will never improve with that kind of messaging and teaching. Sad, because he probably could become a decent player, but jacking up one terrible shot after another at critical stretches during games shouldn't automatically land you on the A-10 rookie team. Especially when a player like Maxwell had a much more well-rounded season. btw, if Stepahane Lasme had played as much as Bowers and taken as many shots he would have averaged 10.5 ppg. Take enough shots and I guess that lands you a place on the all rookie team, huh?

I want Bowers to do well because he is a Minuteman, but he is a symbol of what is wrong with our Lappas coached team.
Last edited by Chemical Ali on Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Chemical Ali » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:42 pm

Chapel Hill Minuteman wrote:Hardly a D 1 prospect? Wasn't Bowers rated in the top 50? How the hell is that hardly a D1 prospect?
See previous post. Thanks.

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Post by obg » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:59 pm

The part of my brain that focuses on hope likes all the optimism. The part that deals with reality has a different view. The reality usually wins when the two parts argue. Before you start in on me, hear me out.

We have 13 scholarship on the roster for next year. (Assuming no one bails. If none do it will be a first.) We have the eight guys who played in the latter part of the schedule (Anderson, Bowers, Chadwick, Freeman, Lasme, Martin, Maxwell and Viggiano.) We have two walking wounded. (Kouyate and Lee.) We have three new guys. (Carrier, Lamoureux and Salovoski.)

With the eight and Lee they were 5-9. Without Lee they were 5-10. Not a hell of a difference. Now the five first year players will all get better. (Most of the time. Some of the time it goes the other way. I'll use the Hope part and go with 30% better for each of them. That would get three wins.)

Lee, what is he, a senior with two years of eligiblity? Based on the stat above, his presence will not make a big difference. by the way he has a history of getting injured.

Kouyate, he played like a lost soul as a freshman and he was built like a vaulting pole. I saw him at a game at the Bill late in the season this year and it seemed that his upper body was larger than when he was a freshman. He may be a good addition or maybe not. Who knows?

The three newcomers, Lamoureux and Salovski seem to be works in progress and not likely to make any difference in the win-loss.
That leaves us with Carrier. He is hyped as a 6'8" flexible player with a good three shot record. If he can play on the perimeter on offense and hit the threes, get the ball inside when needed and play good D against a big foe he could make a significant difference. There was one thing in his write up that makes me nervous.
" Carrier averaged 20.3 points and 9.3 rebounds for Coach Chris Hinchey's team while recording a team-high 74 steals. Despite missing several games over the course of his career due to injury, he ranks as Salisbury's all-time scoring leader with 1,355 points. Carrier selected UMass over Colorado, Southern California, Miami, Arizona State, Oregon State, Texas and Rutgers."

We also have the same coaching staff. Nuff sed!

So how do we get more than 13 wins? It's all on Carrier. If he can step to a level near Ray has we have a shot. If he doesn't it's going to be same old! same old!
They may not be great, but they won't be boring!

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Post by Almontis » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:29 pm

OBG,
If the first year players improve as would be expected, I don't think you can use a mechanical approach to assume that if they improve by 30% each they will win three more games. That ignores the schematics of team basketball. Offensively, I think Bowers and Maxwell's defiencies were in shot selection and indecision. Experience should correct those problems. If these players learn when to shoot and when to drive and dish this opens up better shots for their teamates, and leads to a more efficient and cohesive offense. It will be critical that this year's freshman have learned some of those nuances of Div. I hoops, and that Carrier can be assimilated into the fold fairly painlessly.

Overall, defense and rebounding were our biggest weaknesses. Perimeter defense was all but non-existent. You don't need talented players to box out and play D. With the depth we have next year, I hope Coach accepts nothing less than all out defense because if a player is not digging in on D, there will be a player who wants to be on the floor that will play D.

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Post by Floyd » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:50 pm

I like Artie, and I think he's gonna be a real good player for UMass the next 3 years. Yeah, he had some ups & downs this past year, but I think maybe there was a little too much expected of him coming into the season. I'm not big on the freshman excuse, but we gotta remember these kids were in HS last year & to come in as a freshman & dominate is rare. Maxwell & Artie will be excellent backcourt players for us as long as they work their arses off to get better. You can see they have the ability, we just have to get them to play with confidence, cause they both were a little tentative at times which is understandable given the circumstances. Remember, Lou Roe didn't start as a freshman, and the guy was a friggin warrior. I predict they could become one of the best backcourts in the league by their junior year with good solid coaching.

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