Game 4, 2025-26: Central CT (11/16)

[TheInsider]

27 square miles surrounded by reality. Grew up there.. there is a population of more grounded people in town but they keep to themselves

[Juice Stand]

This is the same bs you've been spouting for years. There's maybe a maximum 5% of fans who are so turned off by Frank's style that no amount of winning would make up for it. The vast majority of folks want him to win and are ok with the yelling as long as it's productive and doesn't get into abusive behavior.

I refuse to be lectured about how I should shut up and be happy that we beat CCSU by 7pts. That 2nd half was a pathetic display.

RANT ALERT:

Niles I am not lecturing anyone. I am born and raised in this area. Am-herst has always been like this. Sorry I am speaking to it and probably offending some here, but it is what it is.

There are two kinds of snooty - Financial and Educational. Amherst is the latter (Longmeadow would be the former). I am not talking about Umass Campus.... it is a great experience, great party school and the students get it... I am talking about the residents of Amherst (and Hamp to a degree). I am blanking on the asshole's name (Max page???), but the professor who was very vocal anti-sport years ago was quintessential Am-herst.... As "educators", they know everything and are simply better than you because of their tremendous intellect....

The point was/is that college athletics is a dirty business and in order to have success you have to get dirty, but Amherstians (not all but most) wanted to stay above that and while Calapari was successful they kept their heads in the sand about how the guy was able to get Umass to that point. Amherst still carries that mantle in too many ways today....

A guy like Frank turns a lot of people off because he looks like an asshole and it embarrasses some. Few Umass people seemed to know this before Frank got here, and were shocked when they saw it.... Everyone who pays any attention to College basketball knew Frank was crazy - there was even an article circa-his finals run titled... Frank Martin is a Lunatic..... in the land of public opinion - When he is winning, he's a character; but when he is losing, he's an asshole (there is a Bull Durham reference in there somewhere).

College Academics and College sports stopped playing in the same sandbox years ago.... Amherst has still not come to that realization.

Eldon, this is the point that you're not acknowledging:

The vast majority of folks want him to win and are ok with the yelling as long as it's productive and doesn't get into abusive behavior.

I absolutely fall into this camp. Yell your head off, be a lunatic, get red in the face, throw your coat on the ground and stomp all over the place. I don't care. But be constructive with your instructions. Be a coach. Help your team. He doesn't do that in real time. He yells insults. He literally screamed at Bettiol that he's a 2-year old while someone was shooting free throws. It's neither productive or instructive. It does nothing to help the players understand what they've done wrong, or how to do it better. I understand that he works on this stuff in practice so they should know better, but the stuff he yells in the games is nonsense.

It is not an outrageous or Am-herstian "snowflake" take to say that he needs to be better. He's basically a .500 coach since that magical final 4 run almost 10 years ago. He needs to have better messaging and be a better coach. Full stop.

[eldonabe]

Juice we are saying the same thing from different angles. Frank can do almost anything he wants (within legal boundaries) if he is getting results.

Bill Belicheck was Jesus H Christ in New England for 20 years and treated people like shit.... but he was winning. Nothing in his attitude or cadence changed in his last 4 years except the winning part and suddenly that schtick was no longer acceptable and he became an asshole (He always was an asshole, just like Frank has always been a lunatic neither have changed).

I too want him to be successful and don't really care how as long as he brings results.

[Juice Stand]

Yeah, true I think we're largely on the same page, but I'm honestly sick and tired of your Am-Herst takes. I'm assuming you know that people from outside of Amherst go to the games. It's a blanket statement about an entire community and the surrounding area that I just don't like. Do you go to the games, because if you aren't in the arena, then you lose some credibility about what Frank is doing and how over the top it is. I sit there across the sideline every game and hear and see everything he does.

Here's my yearly timeline on Frank:
1: Thrilled we got a coach with a pedigree after moving on from a guy that was clearly in over his head. He's nuts, but that's ok.
2: We are winning games, this is a blast. He's chewing Cohen's ass out for not rebounding, but it is what it is. He didn't really rebound, so it was all good.
3: This team SUCKS and Frank is going off the rails. None of this is good.
4: This team is winning, Leo Bettiol looks like an all-league player, and he's saying some of the most insulting and ridiculous stuff I've ever heard.

I'm starting to get fed up with it. I'm not there yet, and I see a team that has potential to be very fun, but if they flame out then I'll be out on Frank. I'll reiterate that since his final 4, he's only a few games over .500, the results have been bad for almost ten years.

[eldonabe]

Yeah, true I think we're largely on the same page, but I'm honestly sick and tired of your Am-Herst takes. I'm assuming you know that people from outside of Amherst go to the games. It's a blanket statement about an entire community and the surrounding area that I just don't like. Do you go to the games, because if you aren't in the arena, then you lose some credibility about what Frank is doing and how over the top it is. I sit there across the sideline every game and hear and see everything he does.

Here's my yearly timeline on Frank:
1: Thrilled we got a coach with a pedigree after moving on from a guy that was clearly in over his head. He's nuts, but that's ok.
2: We are winning games, this is a blast. He's chewing Cohen's ass out for not rebounding, but it is what it is. He didn't really rebound, so it was all good.
3: This team SUCKS and Frank is going off the rails. None of this is good.
4: This team is winning, Leo Bettiol looks like an all-league player, and he's saying some of the most insulting and ridiculous stuff I've ever heard.

I'm starting to get fed up with it. I'm not there yet, and I see a team that has potential to be very fun, but if they flame out then I'll be out on Frank. I'll reiterate that since his final 4, he's only a few games over .500, the results have been bad for almost ten years.

I do still attend most games. I was an STH for many years but my work schedule changed quite a bit 2 years ago so I just go game by game now and watch the rest on TV. I have been to 10 or 11 games in person each of the last 2 years.

I have no problem with him being a lunatic, as I said I used to play for one way back in the day. Very similar style actually, that shit motivated me.

My "problem" for lack of a better word, is that the game has evolved significantly in the last 5-8 years and Frank's style is not as effective as it used to be. Frank is a bully and runs on that scare factor (in games)... For the record he is not really like that in practices, he is a pretty good teacher of the game.

Are there players who can deal with that - sure, but not many and now that you can just jump ship with no repercussions, that makes it a lot harder to keep kids who don't want to get their head chopped off every game. Add NIL and it is a free for all now. A kid like Reggie Luis would have stayed for 3 years back in the old system and Frank would have been able to mold him and build a team around him.


As for Am-Herst I love the place, I had a great experience at Umass, and I know some great "regular people" there still to this day. The academic community there mostly suck though and with 5 colleges close by, there is a lot of academia to go around. I will admit that I am very jaded by some of that. Early in my career I dealt with a number of academic based organizations and they were very tough to deal with - they were the smartest people in the room and they let you know it... when the reality was that they may have been book smart but really street stupid. There is still a lot of that in Amherst.

[Juice Stand]

My "problem" for lack of a better word, is that the game has evolved significantly in the last 5-8 years and Frank's style is not as effective as it used to be. Frank is a bully and runs on that scare factor (in games)... For the record he is not really like that in practices, he is a pretty good teacher of the game.

Totally with you on this. I assume he is a good teacher/tactician based on what I hear from players and his past success, which makes it all the more head scratching when he acts like a petulant child during games.

Glad to hear that you're still coming to games. Getting the full Frank experience in person is totally different than it is on TV.

[69MG]

I don't usually enjoy the back-and-forth banter as it generally ends up in name-calling, etc. But you two are sticking to good talking points without getting personal. I have always lived in Western Mass, loved my 4 years at UMass (wished it could have 7 or 8 like IV ) and I think I understand the cultures here.

Cal was very tough on the players in practice but wasn't as nuts as Frank during games. Of course, his teams made far fewer mental errors than Frank's teams. Frank often talks about the lack of discipline in AAU ball and how it may lead kids to be somewhat lacking in fundamentals when they get to college. I can't confirm or deny this, but in the few AAU games that I have watched, many of the players are going for highlight reel plays to get their stock up.

Anyhow, let's hope this group of players can take the heat and we see a 20-win season.

[eldonabe]

I don't usually enjoy the back-and-forth banter as it generally ends up in name-calling, etc. But you two are sticking to good talking points without getting personal. I have always lived in Western Mass, loved my 4 years at UMass (wished it could have 7 or 8 like IV ) and I think I understand the cultures here.

Cal was very tough on the players in practice but wasn't as nuts as Frank during games. Of course, his teams made far fewer mental errors than Frank's teams. Frank often talks about the lack of discipline in AAU ball and how it may lead kids to be somewhat lacking in fundamentals when they get to college. I can't confirm or deny this, but in the few AAU games that I have watched, many of the players are going for highlight reel plays to get their stock up.

Anyhow, let's hope this group of players can take the heat and we see a 20-win season.

Thanks - and BAMFORD HAS TO GO

[Floyd]

Hopefully they keep winning and the need for the wrath of Frank is minimized. Sometimes shit happens in games or other teams/players make good plays. Doesn't always mean a player doesnt "get it" or warrant getting chewed out. Juice has a point

[InnervisionsUMASS]

Very well done and productive back and forth here. I'm impressed.

[eldonabe]

I can't confirm or deny this, but in the few AAU games that I have watched, many of the players are going for highlight reel plays to get their stock up.

Yup this..... it's the "look at me" / "short attention span" generation. Very hard to coach those kids and get any consistency out of them.

[wmmmfan]

CCSU beats Rutgers 67-54

[Juice Stand]

No clue how good Rutgers is supposed to be, but it doesn't surprise me that CCSU got the W. I was very impressed with them. Even though we had that big halftime lead, they looked like a real basketball team and their fight in that 2nd half was outstanding. They'll be a contender in their league.