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eldonabe wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:31 am

Jackson96 wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:09 am I don't know, I think KTM and CJ (let's just use initials here) were on pretty similar trajectories after year one -- and I think in both cases it is (and was in CJ's case) way too early to draw too many conclusions for their careers.

I agree whole heartedly - but nobody was throwing CJ under the bus like many are now with KTM.

Ergo - the Hypocrisy

what? Nobody? C'mon eldon, you were very critical of CJ all the way thru last year. Still are, no?
Let's be fair here

eldonabe wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:31 am

Jackson96 wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:09 am I don't know, I think KTM and CJ (let's just use initials here) were on pretty similar trajectories after year one -- and I think in both cases it is (and was in CJ's case) way too early to draw too many conclusions for their careers.

I agree whole heartedly - but nobody was throwing CJ under the bus like many are now with KTM.

Ergo - the Hypocrisy

Eh, I think there were some folks who doubted CJ early on just as there are some folks who are doubting KTM early on. And while I do think that's too early in either case, I also don't think either situation reaches the level of throwing anyone under any bus. My panties = unbunched about this.

Jackson96 wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:00 pm

eldonabe wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:31 am

Jackson96 wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:09 am I don't know, I think KTM and CJ (let's just use initials here) were on pretty similar trajectories after year one -- and I think in both cases it is (and was in CJ's case) way too early to draw too many conclusions for their careers.

I agree whole heartedly - but nobody was throwing CJ under the bus like many are now with KTM.

Ergo - the Hypocrisy

Eh, I think there were some folks who doubted CJ early on just as there are some folks who are doubting KTM early on. And while I do think that's too early in either case, I also don't think either situation reaches the level of throwing anyone under any bus. My panties = unbunched about this.

I bunch them with the same people who try to predict the starting lineup and haven't seen 1/2 the team play. Besides Cobb who I saw play about 8 times for Fairfield I know nothing about anyone else in their 1st yr .

^ There is no place here for truthiness.

He was a freshman who had some bumps in the road. The talent and potential is there, as it was with CJ.

Wasn't CJ the one someone on here was calling a "Division II" player?

McKinney wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:37 pm Wasn't CJ the one someone on here was calling a "Division II" player?

Post by eldonabe » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:12 pm

InnervisionsUMASS wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:31 pm
For a guy who supposedly was a borderline D2 player, he's not too bad.

I said he was a Solid D2 player - not borderline...... And I still think he is.

The exact quote:

eldonabe wrote: Thu May 18, 2017 8:17 am I have been on the Baldwin train since day 1 and I still am.

I could care less if he got into scuffles with teammates and coaches. That mentality is exactly what I like about him.

To say he hasn't done shit is just not a fair statement. Frankly, the whole team didn't do shit starting with the [former] head coach, and everyone in between right down to the water boy 35 seats away at the end of the bench.

There were 5 players who looked like they actually cared and were trying 100% of the time out on the floor:

Baldwin
Pip
Holloway
CJ - I still think he is a D2 talent at best, but I cannot argue with his effort
Hines

Ironically and not coincidentally - those are all the same players who are sticking this out with the change. All guys who look like they want to put in the effort and work. I think Gresham would have fit the mold too, but he his hitching his cart to DJ and while I think that is a huge mistake in the long view, I respect his right to make that decision and wish him well.


If Baldwin stays for the entire 4 he WILL be mentioned in the same breath as many of the Umass greats from the last 25-30 years. BOOK IT

I was not posting to say that I have changed my stance on CJ. I am not walking away from those statements and I still believe them.


KTM is not getting much love here after his first year and he is no worse (I think he is much better) than CJ was after his first year here. So I ask why are we so short/impatient with KTM when many of you were much more accepting of CJ who is not as far along as KTM (IMO) is at the same point?

^ Up until McCall got here, CJ had a very unimpressive career playing on very poor teams, alongside at least a fair amount of talented players that were most likely handled poorly by the coach. He finally broke out under McCall. In the same season, playing for the same coach, KTM barely saw the court, and that includes the 2nd half of the season when UMass was extremely short-handed and resorted to having walk-ons play heavy minutes.

^ CJ - Senior
KTM - Freshman

Big difference. Ask any college kid how much different they are as a senior vs a freshman

^ No one's arguing that point. CJ had plenty of detractors on here, but as I recall, he never seemed as out of place on the court as KTM did this past year. Randall West joined the team and in 3 of his first 5 games he played more minutes than KTM did in any game all season, that speaks volumes.

Good points, all true. I just think that many freshman have a hard time adjusting to the speed of game, college game in terms of preparation etc. Look at Trey Davis. I remember he looked like a deer in the headlights his freshman year, totally overwhelmed at times. But you learn and grow and settle in. Not saying KTM will become the next S. Lasme, but I think it might be unfair to base his potential off of an injury plagued freshman year.

True, Randall West came in and was effective. And I 100% applaud his ability to do so. But he's also a kid who's been here a while, a quarterback that has gone thru the preparation of running an offense, so I'd expect he would be more prepared or able to prepare than a freshman KTM.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, and I certainly don't know how it'll all work out. But people are quick to write off players as freshman. He looks to have the physical ability to be an effective player at UMASS and before we give up on him, I'd like to see how he progresses when fully healthy and some time with the staff. Big guys are harder to find in my opinion

^ I'm not sure people are writing KTM off, so much as their expectations are low. I have the utmost faith in McCall & staff, but even the best coaches make personnel mistakes, or have players who for a variety of reasons never quite pan out. It's still early in his career, and I certainly haven't written him off, but thus far I haven't been impressed by KTM, and his career trajectory seems more likely to match TBerg than that of Lalanne. Whether it's his rumored accident, his ability level, or something else, I find it rather telling that in addition to KTM, UMass has Baptiste & Thomas next season, and are still recruiting Wildens Leveque.

^ I'm a KTM fan. Niles, however, does make sense. Hopefully KTM will have a break-out rather than a bust-up year. Time will tell.