Game 14, 2024-25: at Saint Joseph's (12/31)

[NilesGold]

9 out of 10 games you would take 0 points over 23 points and 9 rebounds. #NeverForget

I don't think highly of Ndjigue because of his meager offense. Rivera did well at the FT line today, the rest of his play wasn't impressive.

Rivera will at times fill up the box score in ways that don't seem to be particularly advantageous for this team.

Rivera could have 40 points, 30 rebounds, 10 assists and someone on here like Niles would post “mmmmm yeah but his turnover ratio wasn’t great, good performance but could be better”

Or he could have a double double against a D3 team and you'd use that as evidence of him being great.

Here's my take on Rivera... he's been better lately, largely a function of him sticking more to playing in the paint. He still looks wildly out of control far too often and opposing defenses ignore him until he's in the paint, which hurts the team's spacing. He's also still taking too many shots and not passing it enough, often bringing the ball up the court and hunting for a shot that isn't there. I find his defense to be mediocre most of the time.

He would probably be better on a team with a C and SF who can stretch the floor, and he can come off the bench in more of a glue guy role.

He's not terrible, he's just not great, and he's certainly not what this team needs.

[NilesGold]

How is improving over his freshman year self not good enough? And it's not arguable, it's a fact that by pretty much every metric he's a better player than he was last year on a per minute basis. I think the issue is not his performance, but your own expectations.

*Talking about Curry here as the conversation has switched over to Rivera.

I had no intention of arguing about whether Curry is better than he was last year, my statement was an attempt to sidestep your statement instead of engaging with it, because I just don't think it's that important. I care only about how good he is this year... but now I'll address it briefly. Stats are great, they can often tell you a lot, but they're also not infallible. I find Curry is less turnover prone than last year, but otherwise he's basically the same... his defense seems worse, but I don't think I was paying as much attention last year, so maybe I'm just imagining it.

Certainly my expectations are an issue, but if your expectations were for Curry to show meager improvement over his freshman year, then you probably expected this team to be a bottom 4 A10 team?

Frank jettisoned our starting PG from last year, and didn't add any PGs, leaving Curry as one of two PGs and four total guards on the team... with Worthy as the backup PG and a freshman as the 4th guard. My expectations for Curry were high, why else would Frank have taken those moves in the off-season?

Last year Curry was unbelievably inefficient on offense but took a lot of shots. That has not changed one bit. He still takes a ton of shots, and his defense is truly some of the worst I've seen from a UMass guard.

[inthescoop]

I don't think highly of Ndjigue because of his meager offense. Rivera did well at the FT line today, the rest of his play wasn't impressive.

Rivera will at times fill up the box score in ways that don't seem to be particularly advantageous for this team.

Rivera could have 40 points, 30 rebounds, 10 assists and someone on here like Niles would post “mmmmm yeah but his turnover ratio wasn’t great, good performance but could be better”

Or he could have a double double against a D3 team and you'd use that as evidence of him being great.

Here's my take on Rivera... he's been better lately, largely a function of him sticking more to playing in the paint. He still looks wildly out of control far too often and opposing defenses ignore him until he's in the paint, which hurts the team's spacing. He's also still taking too many shots and not passing it enough, often bringing the ball up the court and hunting for a shot that isn't there. I find his defense to be mediocre most of the time.

He would probably be better on a team with a C and SF who can stretch the floor, and he can come off the bench in more of a glue guy role.

He's not terrible, he's just not great, and he's certainly not what this team needs.

Or he could have had a “double double” 23 points and 9 rebounds against a team who’s beat Villanova, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech - which is factual - that’s my evidence

[JoleonLescottsHair]

9 out of 10 games you would take 0 points over 23 points and 9 rebounds. #NeverForget

I don't think highly of Ndjigue because of his meager offense. Rivera did well at the FT line today, the rest of his play wasn't impressive.

Rivera will at times fill up the box score in ways that don't seem to be particularly advantageous for this team.

Rivera could have 40 points, 30 rebounds, 10 assists and someone on here like Niles would post “mmmmm yeah but his turnover ratio wasn’t great, good performance but could be better”

Dude, what’s up with the absolutely urgent Rivera love? No single player has attracted your zealous defense like him. Let’s be honest, he is not that great, but has wracked up decent stats on a very bad team. He doesn’t make the team better, nor, in fairness, does anyone at this point. But the need to “defend” Rivera seems over the top. Bottom line is that everyone other than DSH (and Muhammed in his bizarro Frank-limited way) has been a massive disappointment.

[inthescoop]

^”Against bad teams”… and yet I just showed you St. Joes is not a bad team based on their wins this season.

Why do UMass fans go above and beyond to prove to others that their players are bad? Isn’t the goal to cheer and root for your team?

You can’t fix misery. Well now it’s a new year.. hopefully now UMass fans will actually root for UMass players and teams without getting too much into their tiny little heads. Cheers to that!

[stevemaz]

Is everyone else still content with Jaylen Curry?

I am not. he pretty much lost that game yesterday.

[Floyd]

I’d love to see a big lineup of Shahid, DHS, Rivera with sool and curry. Have Watson and Jayden spell the front court or go small.

Yeah, I like that lineup as well. Shahid has potential, just needs the experience to build the confidence. Put him in there & let him play. DHS & Rivera more offense minded and Shahid is pretty good on the lobs & put backs. I think Malek might produce more coming off the bench.

[DoctorJ]

I don't see how that lineup opens things up. Looks good on paper but we saw earlier this season that it doesn't open things up.

We over-invested in bigs, unfortunately. We needed more shooting.

Imagine this team with a shooter like Rich Kelly, instead of center number 4??? We'd have twice as many wins.

[Juice Stand]

Certainly my expectations are an issue, but if your expectations were for Curry to show meager improvement over his freshman year, then you probably expected this team to be a bottom 4 A10 team?

My expectations were for him to show improvement, which he has done. And by saying "meager" improvement you're once again throwing your own expectations on him. Players develop at different rates, and he has shown development. I'm not trying to sing his praises or anything, it's pretty obvious that every player on this team is struggling in one way or another, so I'm not going to single him out when he has shown growth in many areas.

The players that have been most disappointing to me so far, number one without a doubt is Diggins, and I have to say Ndjigue has been far less impactful than last year and struggles to make FTs and layups. I could add Akil and Nate to that list, but I feel like Akil hasn't been given enough of a chance to show what he can do, and Nate is a freshman so he gets a pass. There was a lot of buzz about Nate possibly having an RJ Luis type freshman year, but he's just another guy that has struggled to shoot. So there's plenty of disappointment to dole out, but for me, Curry is near the bottom of that list.

[Floyd]

I don't see how that lineup opens things up. Looks good on paper but we saw earlier this season that it doesn't open things up.

We over-invested in bigs, unfortunately. We needed more shooting.

Imagine this team with a shooter like Rich Kelly, instead of center number 4??? We'd have twice as many wins.

But that's the roster we have. Who you inserting to open things up? Maybe Watson as the SF? I wonder if they were banking on Cross coming back and when he didn't, it was too late to find another perimeter scorer

[Old Cage]

Have we seen anything like these two single game stats in the post-Cal era?

1. Two guys scored 78% of our points (Diggins 33 and Rivera 23).
2. The rest of the team shot 7-for-37 (19%)!!!

Yow!

[minutefanjsf]

Have we seen anything like these two single game stats in the post-Cal era?

1. Two guys scored 78% of our points (Diggins 33 and Rivera 23).
2. The rest of the team shot 7-for-37 (19%)!!!

Yow!

It made me think of bruiser ball. Monty Mack and one other to score all of our points.

[NilesGold]

Certainly my expectations are an issue, but if your expectations were for Curry to show meager improvement over his freshman year, then you probably expected this team to be a bottom 4 A10 team?

My expectations were for him to show improvement, which he has done. And by saying "meager" improvement you're once again throwing your own expectations on him. Players develop at different rates, and he has shown development. I'm not trying to sing his praises or anything, it's pretty obvious that every player on this team is struggling in one way or another, so I'm not going to single him out when he has shown growth in many areas.

The players that have been most disappointing to me so far, number one without a doubt is Diggins, and I have to say Ndjigue has been far less impactful than last year and struggles to make FTs and layups. I could add Akil and Nate to that list, but I feel like Akil hasn't been given enough of a chance to show what he can do, and Nate is a freshman so he gets a pass. There was a lot of buzz about Nate possibly having an RJ Luis type freshman year, but he's just another guy that has struggled to shoot. So there's plenty of disappointment to dole out, but for me, Curry is near the bottom of that list.

You didn't answer my question, if this is what you expected of Curry, did you also expect UMass to be a bottom 4 A10 team?

This team being even just a middle of the pack A10 team was pretty heavily reliant on Curry taking a very big step forward and being at least being a fringe all A10 player.

As I've said before, Curry has shown improvement in some areas (most notably lower turnover rate), but also regression in others. His shooting/efficiency was very bad last year and has only gotten worse.

FG% 37 --> 35
FT% 69 --> 63
eFG% 42 --> 41

[NilesGold]

There was a lot not to like about this game, but a couple stood out to me.

1. The end of the 1st half, SJU scores with :23 left, UMass races up the court, instead of holding for the last shot Diggins takes a 3 with :16 left and misses. SJU proceeds to turn it over, UMass races up court and Curry takes another 3 with :07 left, SJU get the rebound and proceeds to get a dunk to close out the half.

UMass failed to hold for the last shot not once, but twice. Just utterly terrible decision making from your starting backcourt.

2. I lost count, but at least 3-4 times SJU ran a pick & pop where the screener popped out to the 3pt line for a wide open 3 that they buried without a UMass defender within 10ft of them. I don't know if this was part of UMass' defensive plan, or poor execution, but either way it had disastrous effects.

[Juice Stand]

Certainly my expectations are an issue, but if your expectations were for Curry to show meager improvement over his freshman year, then you probably expected this team to be a bottom 4 A10 team?

My expectations were for him to show improvement, which he has done. And by saying "meager" improvement you're once again throwing your own expectations on him. Players develop at different rates, and he has shown development. I'm not trying to sing his praises or anything, it's pretty obvious that every player on this team is struggling in one way or another, so I'm not going to single him out when he has shown growth in many areas.

The players that have been most disappointing to me so far, number one without a doubt is Diggins, and I have to say Ndjigue has been far less impactful than last year and struggles to make FTs and layups. I could add Akil and Nate to that list, but I feel like Akil hasn't been given enough of a chance to show what he can do, and Nate is a freshman so he gets a pass. There was a lot of buzz about Nate possibly having an RJ Luis type freshman year, but he's just another guy that has struggled to shoot. So there's plenty of disappointment to dole out, but for me, Curry is near the bottom of that list.

You didn't answer my question, if this is what you expected of Curry, did you also expect UMass to be a bottom 4 A10 team?

This team being even just a middle of the pack A10 team was pretty heavily reliant on Curry taking a very big step forward and being at least being a fringe all A10 player.

As I've said before, Curry has shown improvement in some areas (most notably lower turnover rate), but also regression in others. His shooting/efficiency was very bad last year and has only gotten worse.

FG% 37 --> 35
FT% 69 --> 63
eFG% 42 --> 41

my statement was an attempt to sidestep your statement instead of engaging with it, because I just don't think it's that important