Game 28, 2013-14: Dayton

UMass1927 · Post by **UMass1927** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:26 pm

I guess I just got confused when you said you weren't glorifying him in the same post you compared him to Rudy.

vanmeter · Post by **vanmeter** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:34 pm

Just got back from Dayton about an hour ago and was surprised at the very negative sentiments with regards to this game.

Dayton is a very tough place to play. A large sold out crowd and a very good student contingent. An excellent home atmosphere. Beer counters all over the concourse but crowd well controlled. This is their 20th win so they are not a junk team by any standard.

They are a very good 3 point shooting team (37%) but exceeded that to 45% today.

While Chaz had an off day, if he could have got some help from our frontcourt players we still could have won. Cady played well but Esho, Putney, Bergantino, ands Sampsonn Carter did very little. Sampson had I think our 1st 9 points and then was a no show the rest of the game. Putney and Esho did even less.

We lost in a difficult environment to a pretty good team.

No need to panic. We will be ready Wednesday.

Mass Grad · Post by **Mass Grad** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:42 pm

MikeEsq wrote:I'm curious to what you guys think about this. I don't want to give people memories of the Freddie Twitter stuff, but here goes. Chaz and DG tweeted this within a few seconds of each other:

Chaz Juice Williams ‏@Chaz3Williams 5h

Tough road loss !! Can't be influenced by the outside negativity.. We Will Always Workhard & I Love My Brothers !!!

Derrick Gordon ‏@Derrick5Gordon 5h

Tough road loss...Gotta stay together!!! Can't worry about the outside negative energy

I guess my question is: (A) Do these guys read the board? Or are idiots tweeting at them? (B) What do players consider "negative energy" and "negativity"?

Their own coach called them out for a lack of toughness. Does that constitute negativity? Trey said the Dayton "wanted it more than us." So did Chaz? Again, is that negative?

Here's the scoop - they let a very, very winnable game go down the shitter today, f-ing up a golden chance at a spot in the Top 25 and, more importantly, a No. 2 or No. 3 seed in the A-10 Tourney. They have VERY tough games ahead of them, and with the way multiple people played today, it doesn't inspire a wellspring of confidence.

We're fans, we feel passionately about the team. Nobody is jumping off the bandwagon or saying the season's over. But I don't think, as fans (or even impartial media members do so), it's unfair to say UMass lost a winnable one, looked poor doing so, and need to get their act together for the final two weeks. That's not "negative energy" to me.

When it is taken in total it seems so to me and maybe Dayton is better than you seem to think they are.

The Camby Man Can · Post by **The Camby Man Can** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:35 am

after about 13 hours of digestion and a few too many pints, here is my take on a few of the matters discussed (warning: a bit drunk and grammatical errors will likely surface):

first, when I read the comments from chaz post-game, i find the following a bit infuriating (but again not surprising):

"I did a poor job of getting my guys involved," he said. "Only have five assists with four turnovers, that's a testament to me not getting my guys involved and doing my job."

Williams called the loss, which knocked UMass out of both the race for the Atlantic 10 regular season title and the conference tournament's top seed, a "humbling experience."

"It looked like they just wanted it more than us today," he said.

I understand these guys are really just very young adults at the age of 22-23 or younger, but with so much on the line, so much time spent in the offseason and during the season to admit that another team wanted it more than you with only THREE games left in your regular season career, is baffling. At the end of the day, I, along with a lot of Umass fans (both on this board and not) think this team has a pretty high ceiling, maybe we are all wrong, but the lack of consistency from a focus and effort perspective is discouraging , particularly because we are led by a senior Naismith nominee.

I watched the entire St Joes St Bonnies game. Similar situation in many respects to UMass and St Joes tonight in that: 1) st bonaventure, like dayton, is a fairly tough place to play (but not impossible, Dayton is not fucking cameron indoor for gods sake; and Olean, for however far in the middle of nowhere it may be is not much more than WPI filled with some upstaters), 2) st bonaventure is a mediocre team (they are not a good team) just like Dayton, and 3) st joes is a "lock" and is only playing for an a-10 bye like UMass. Yet, St Joes played with a PURPOSE today, they played to win the fucking game (not just to attend it), they beat St Bonaventure in just about every phase because they were better on paper, knew it, and proved it. Galloway played like a senior leader, took the fucking game on his back and delivered. roberts, kanacevik, and bembry all showed up. They didn't take possessions off. They won the 50-50 balls. They got on the offensive glass. They got on the floor. They hit the glass, they defended on just about every possession. At the end of the day, the way st joes approached the game, carried themselves, and ultimately executed stands in stark contrast to Umass today. Yes we delivered against GW and VCU and I commend them for that, but why not show some resolve and take care of business when perhaps its not a must have but a nice-to-have. Frankly, if you put UMass and St Joes on a neutral court right now (at 12:30am in the morning), I think St Joes wins the game 7 out of 10 times... but now I am straying. Time to end the tangent...

This game was important. Those who try to justify it as an "expected" lost are kidding themselves. We were the better team. We were better in just about every match up. We should have won this game. to lose it because the other team wanted it more is MORE concerning than getting beat by a team that is flat out better than you.

But on to the next one...March is the time for a short memory. But losing because another team wants it more than you in March is not satisfactory. It speaks volumes to your competitiveness and will to win a fucking basketball game...bed time

econalum · Post by **econalum** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:52 am

My view:

- We lacked hustle, especially on the boards.
- Chazz had a bad game, and Dayton played him very well on D.
- It is just one game, and Dayton is good.

I really could care less about an A10 regular season championship. It is all about the A10 playoffs and NCAA.

Dukes could be the ultimate 'bad loss' - so I hope that UM comes out focused and intense. Let's not make it complicated for the NCAA committee.

Will be at UM Sunday, for which should be an awesome battle with St. Louis.

Go UM!

Refuse2Lose83 · Post by **Refuse2Lose83** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:02 am

Great post Camby man, and excellent/flawless grammar. Very impressive after a "few" pints!

Totally agree with the being out played point. We have 3 guys who are down to their last month of college hoops. All the work they've put in during the off season, in season and all their lives, there is no excuse for knowing and allowing a team to want it more. Gotta give it everything, and look back with no regrets.

NilesGold · Post by **NilesGold** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:42 am

The Camby Man Can wrote: 2) st bonaventure is a mediocre team (they are not a good team) just like Dayton, and 3) st joes is a "lock" and is only playing for an a-10 bye like UMass.

You completely lost me here. Dayton is a better team than SBU, no question about it. St. Joe's it NOT a lock, they're in good shape, but they are 100% still on the bubble.

The Camby Man Can · Post by **The Camby Man Can** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:59 am

Niles,

First, I didn't say the Bonnies were better than Dayton anywhere in my post. I said they are mediocre, just like Dayton. I would concede that Dayton may be a bit better (they did beat the Bonnies by 3 in Olean), but I was not wowed by Dayton in any way yesterday. The one thing they do very well is run good stuff on offense, I will give them that. But they are a flawed team in many respects, and I think they smell of an NIT team in every way.

Second, you were right about the "lock" situation and St Joes. I had a few too many pints last night and got a little carried away there. That said, I think they are on the right side of the bubble after yesterday's win. And if an NCAA selection committee member watched them since Christmas, they would easily be in from an eye test perspective (but don't want to start a firestorm on this thread of how the Selection Committee picks teams). They are playing much better ball than us at the moment.

NilesGold · Post by **NilesGold** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:10 am

^You're trying to make the SJU vs SBU game out to be comparable to UMass vs Dayton, but it's really not. Dayton is a significantly better team than SBU. and STJ had a lot more at stake in their game than UMass did in it's game.

The Camby Man Can · Post by **The Camby Man Can** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:42 am

I don't believe Dayton is a significantly better team than St Bonaventure, we just disagree there. And although St Joes may have had more at stake, that was a pretty darn important game for UMass in several ways- earn an a10 bye or actually have the potential to play for the a10 regular season title at home on Senior Day versus St Louis, NCAA seeding, and just proving to everyone that their win away from home at GW was not an aberration but something that was repeatable. The way they approached yesterday's game reminded me of the Celtics Big 3 era and their performances in the playoffs where they would always hold serve at home and then would essentially give their opponent the first game away from the Garden just to make it interesting (Game 6 of the 2010 NBA Finals versus the Lakers haunts me to this day in how they just didn't show up, Game 7 tortures me, but now I am really running off the rails) Its this light switch mentality that is bothersome, and it starts with our seniors.

albaby · Post by **albaby** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:37 am

UMass1927 wrote:
fenway617 wrote:^^
Really? Glorification ?? That's how you translate that?

The guy gives 100% every time he is out there. He lacks the skills to be effective but not the desire, he is like Rudy. If Cady/Putney had that same desire they'd be better. But the options are limited so they have no choice but to play him.

But Glorification... really? Do you know what that even means? I don't think what I wrote translates to this:

Merriam-Webster
Glorification:
a : to make glorious by bestowing honor, praise, or admiration
b : to elevate to celestial glory
Yeah you glorified him because you made outrageous claims like "if cady or put could only play like tberg" ...

TBerg is regularly out of position, fouling, and may as well be blind on offense at this point.

He tries hard? What is this 5th grade? He is a liability out there. You talk about him like hes the heart and soul of the team when most nights it would be better off if he literally never touched the floor.

Agree, all he does is take up space. Opponents attack him as soon as he is inserted into the line up, with no or little rebounds and points. Desire and nice guys don't necessarily win games.

Chris20 · Post by **Chris20** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:48 am

Other than the "tough venue" part, there is little similarity in the SJU game and our game yesterday. I'm not saying we couldn't/shouldn't have won. But the Bonnies have been bad lately, barely beating Duquesne at home and losing handily to URI and Lasalle. They are not even an NIT team right now.

I have no idea how that compares with a Dayton team who had won 6 out of 7 and desperately needed a win over a Top 25 RPI team to help their bubble position.

I could poke holes in the St. Joe side of the things too, but does it matter? Our most important and influential player had a crappy game and we lost. It doesn't mean we are tanking the remainder of the season and aren't interested in playing hard anymore. A talented team played their asses off and made a bunch of shots on their home floor. And the sky is falling?

Jackson96 · Post by **Jackson96** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:09 am

Hey Chris, I don't think Camby Man feels the sky is falling. I think it finds it more upsetting than you that after the game all of the quotes from the coach and two players reference either a lack of toughness or effort. I'm probably not as upset as he is, but I do find it a bit concerning. I recognize these are college kids and human nature etc. etc., but I would have thought that given the number of close in-conference calls and the home loss to GMU they would not just show up and expect to win (as I believe Trey Davis alluded to in his comments), especially considering the jockeying (love being able to use that word) going on for tourney positioning. Part of that is on them and part of that is on the coaching staff for not getting them out of that mindset. At any rate, it's a loss and it's over and done with, move on to the next. I think most, if not all, rational fans feel that way.

I do agree that Dayton is clearly couple of steps above St. Bonaventure, but we shouldn't forget that SBU had us on the ropes at home and beat us solidly on their home court.

Camby4Life · Post by **Camby4Life** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:16 am

I really think this board seriously underestimated the importance of how the 2 games last wed by Umass and Dayton had a huge influence on the importance of this game for each team. It was discussed by the people who keep things in perspective but easily glossed over by many. Umass beat uri and became a lock with that win. DK might not talk about this stuff to the team, and they might not read this board, but I fully expect friends and family members and even the players themselves following the espn bubble watch and where the team stands. The players knew they became a lock after the uri win. Dayton got blown out at st joes, that result put them in a win out position. Why are we so surprised the players are saying Dayton wanted it more?

Umass played a solid first half, they looked like a tourney team that can control a game on the road. I watched the first half but was only able to watch the final 7 minutes of the game so I can't really comment on how Dayton took over. It appears they realized their season was on the line for 20 minutes.

The Camby Man Can · Post by **The Camby Man Can** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:32 am

agree with everyones sentiment above... i think jackson correctly framed my current thinking.

I still think this team can do some great things, the sky is certainly not falling down, the ceiling is still high.. but I don't think my comments were overly "over reacting". Next game baby.