Toledo Game

Get ready for some MACtion
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ZooMass84
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Re: Toledo Game

Post by ZooMass84 » Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:27 pm

photoman wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:50 pm
JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 1:08 pm
kd68 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:38 am What has happened to this team to have fallen so far? We use to be competitive.
We made the historically dumb decision to move up to 1-A/FBS.
The sales pitch at the time was "there's no future in 1AA football and it's a money loser."
The sales pitch was actually correct. 1AA is a money loser. But the vast majority of FBS programs are money losers also. You have to look at the bigger picture. UMass is almost in the top 20 public universities USNWR. 1AA schools are not unless you are Ivy League (yes I know they are private). in 2010 we were ranked 106th and now 68th in National Universities. Don't tell it me is a coincidence or it would have happened anyway.

ZooMass84
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Re: Toledo Game

Post by ZooMass84 » Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:33 pm

JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 1:08 pm
kd68 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:38 am What has happened to this team to have fallen so far? We use to be competitive.
We made the historically dumb decision to move up to 1-A/FBS.
But the move up has been made and there is no going back. We're not Univ of Idaho where we have no money and voluntarily moved down to FCS because we got kicked out of a conference. Mass. is the 2nd richest state in the US and you'll never hear anyone other than some wacko professor say there isn't any money for football. The wacko Max Page professors grouse that football or sports cost so much but how about these profs going for R&D grants etc.?

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Re: Toledo Game

Post by Camby4Life » Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:06 pm

ZooMass84 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:33 pm
Quann wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:18 pm
ZooMass84 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:03 am
The worst 5 FBS teams would get beaten by many high school teams. Specifically UMass UConn NMSU
As bad as we are, no not one high school team is beating an FBS college team. Cmon man!
I bet you that the HS teams on ESPN from Maryland and Texas and Florida would beat UMass Uconn or NMSU. Something I noticed is that the absolute bottom of the barrel FBS teams are worse than almost all of the FCS teams. Unless we get Derrick Henry or Jonathan Taylor in our backfield we're going 0-12. I don't like the fact we don't have a QB who throw a pass. I'd even take a FCS QB.
Xaverian just destroyed Everett with a Hasselbeck throwing 4 td’s. They would have the advantage at qb but Umass would win. They can play at Gillette.

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SignMan
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Re: Toledo Game

Post by SignMan » Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:27 pm

"a Hasselback" is Matt's son.
The angle of incidence = the angle of reflection: REBOUND!

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Old Cage
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Re: Toledo Game

Post by Old Cage » Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:14 pm

ZooMass84 wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:27 pm Don't tell it me is a coincidence or it would have happened anyway.
The Isenberg School and The Commonwealth College say hi!
"Jack didn’t have any envy in him," Calipari said. "He was the greatest coach to ever coach here."

bunkerhill87
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Re: Toledo Game

Post by bunkerhill87 » Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:55 am

tough spot all around. I agree you cannot go back but the perception and publicity of UMass football is a complete embarrassment. Several schools that made the jump have made huge strides. We have regressed. Hard to recruit any higher end player to any Northeast school. We will never be relavent on a national stage ever. Cards are stacked against us w/ the super conferences. Our hope is be in some lame bowl game at some point. I get the money but other than the huge payout to get slaughtered by power 5 conference seems we are destined for the bottom. Maybe thats good enough to offset the negative

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Re: Toledo Game

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:43 am

The move to FBS/1-A was always the right move. The debate is about when it should have happened.
Stop waiting for UMass to do something big and help UMass do something big. - Shades

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Re: Toledo Game

Post by ZooMass84 » Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:56 am

bunkerhill87 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:55 am tough spot all around. I agree you cannot go back but the perception and publicity of UMass football is a complete embarrassment. Several schools that made the jump have made huge strides. We have regressed. Hard to recruit any higher end player to any Northeast school. We will never be relavent on a national stage ever. Cards are stacked against us w/ the super conferences. Our hope is be in some lame bowl game at some point. I get the money but other than the huge payout to get slaughtered by power 5 conference seems we are destined for the bottom. Maybe thats good enough to offset the negative
Google and read "UMass football crosses the Rubicon". It was written 10 years ago but totally applicable today. The money the football "program" brings in is many times the old 1AA days. You are correct that we have regressed. If we were still in the CAA we would be winless. Unfortunately we are at the bottom end of NEC, MEAC, and SWAC schools. There is a small chance we will get one or two wins this year and most likely NMSU but not Stony Brook. I wish we get our first win Saturday but I think it will be Stony Brook 34 - 10.

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Re: Toledo Game

Post by Worcester_To_Amherst » Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:51 am

As terrible as these 2 games were I have seen some improvements from last year. The front 7 is certainly better. If they were able to execute on 2-3 missed tackles in the backfield where the play call had the QB dead to rights, everyone would probably be feeling better about the state of the team. Now if they keep missing those tackles all year then it won't matter and that will be a test of Brown's coaching.

The O-Line has been serviceable. They have a solid run game but it looks bad when the defense can go all out to stop the run.

I think everyone got too hyped up with Don Brown coming in to save the day. I like the hire but it was never going to look great right away. Still IMO there's no excuses for lack of a real QB or punter along with the mental mistakes still looking like Walt Bell's UMass. No transfer QB was my biggest concern heading into the year and people were right to be concerned. Maybe they can beat Stony Brook with Campiotti but they won't beat anyone else with him. I don't love Olson but he needs to be the primary QB. They need to see what he can bring.
Last edited by Worcester_To_Amherst on Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

JoleonLescottsHair
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Re: Toledo Game

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:51 am

InnervisionsUMASS wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:43 am The move to FBS/1-A was always the right move.
Why?

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Re: Toledo Game

Post by Steve81 » Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 am

bunkerhill87 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:55 am tough spot all around. I agree you cannot go back but the perception and publicity of UMass football is a complete embarrassment. Several schools that made the jump have made huge strides. We have regressed. Hard to recruit any higher end player to any Northeast school. We will never be relavent on a national stage ever. Cards are stacked against us w/ the super conferences. Our hope is be in some lame bowl game at some point. I get the money but other than the huge payout to get slaughtered by power 5 conference seems we are destined for the bottom. Maybe thats good enough to offset the negative
This is true, but good AD's matter. 97% of FBS universities chose to be in a conference. Half of the small 3% are ND, who does plays other sports in the ACC with a scheduling agreement and 1.5% of the CFP share. The other is Army. That leaves UConn which went to the best non football conference. The bottom line is we pay our football HC the same or as now dramatically less. It's absurd we get pennies from the College Playoff money which will continue to increase, especially with the expanded CFP to 12 teams. Liberty had a tons of money, Appy State and others never made the horrendous mistakes since being an elite FCS power and maintain their culture. We let our football culture turn into dirt and will take the good decisions and proper investments in Salaries, facilities, and proper price of total event costs.

G5 conferences are on national ESPN during the year, so on a national stage. This does include the lesser bowls but more importantly the expand 12 team play offs provide that opportunity. That said unless we invest in football, with good decision making at the top, it will be this self fulling prophecy that some on this board may not admit, but subconsciously have.
Go UMass!!

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Re: Toledo Game

Post by ZooMass84 » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:09 am

JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:51 am
InnervisionsUMASS wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:43 am The move to FBS/1-A was always the right move.
Why?
1) Because flagship state universities with state populations over 1,000,000 play FBS/1A football
2) Because our academic standing has increased to the highest its ever been, See USNWR today and we are #67 in National Universities.
3) Because it was done. Essentially you are saying: "the US should not have entered WW2"; "the US should not have NASA and a space program"; "The
interstate highway system is a waste of resources" etc. Standard LSAT type questions.

You are proposing straw man arguments. It's easy to make your argument now that the football team is total joke and one of the worst in Division 1. FBS goes hand in hand with being a National University.

ZooMass84
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Re: Toledo Game

Post by ZooMass84 » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:12 am

Steve81 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 am
bunkerhill87 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:55 am tough spot all around. I agree you cannot go back but the perception and publicity of UMass football is a complete embarrassment. Several schools that made the jump have made huge strides. We have regressed. Hard to recruit any higher end player to any Northeast school. We will never be relavent on a national stage ever. Cards are stacked against us w/ the super conferences. Our hope is be in some lame bowl game at some point. I get the money but other than the huge payout to get slaughtered by power 5 conference seems we are destined for the bottom. Maybe thats good enough to offset the negative
This is true, but good AD's matter. 97% of FBS universities chose to be in a conference. Half of the small 3% are ND, who does plays other sports in the ACC with a scheduling agreement and 1.5% of the CFP share. The other is Army. That leaves UConn which went to the best non football conference. The bottom line is we pay our football HC the same or as now dramatically less. It's absurd we get pennies from the College Playoff money which will continue to increase, especially with the expanded CFP to 12 teams. Liberty had a tons of money, Appy State and others never made the horrendous mistakes since being an elite FCS power and maintain their culture. We let our football culture turn into dirt and will take the good decisions and proper investments in Salaries, facilities, and proper price of total event costs.

G5 conferences are on national ESPN during the year, so on a national stage. This does include the lesser bowls but more importantly the expand 12 team play offs provide that opportunity. That said unless we invest in football, with good decision making at the top, it will be this self fulling prophecy that some on this board may not admit, but subconsciously have.
Totally agree Steve. But as far as I am concerned Ryan Bamford is the Holy Grail of AD's. He hired Carvel and we have our ONLY division 1 Men's National Championship. Not 1AA football, no asterisk next to our name, In Bamford I trust!!!

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Re: Toledo Game

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:28 am

ZooMass84 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:09 am
JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:51 am
InnervisionsUMASS wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:43 am The move to FBS/1-A was always the right move.
Why?
1) Because flagship state universities with state populations over 1,000,000 play FBS/1A football
2) Because our academic standing has increased to the highest its ever been, See USNWR today and we are #67 in National Universities.
3) Because it was done. Essentially you are saying: "the US should not have entered WW2"; "the US should not have NASA and a space program"; "The
interstate highway system is a waste of resources" etc. Standard LSAT type questions.

You are proposing straw man arguments. It's easy to make your argument now that the football team is total joke and one of the worst in Division 1. FBS goes hand in hand with being a National University.
Actually I didn’t propose any “straw man argument” or any argument for that matter. I just asked “why?” It is all right there in print. You answered with some weird correlation and causality about population and academics, but at minimum, you need to work on your understanding of a straw man and then adjust your canned response. In any case, I have long felt it was a mistake to leave 1AA. There is nothing “now that the football team is a joke..” to that belief. None.

Finally, the reason for entering WW2 were considerably more compelling than any jump to big time football in New England. You mentioned something about a straw man? More importantly, are you sure you mean the LSAT?

ZooMass84
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Re: Toledo Game

Post by ZooMass84 » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:48 am

JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:28 am
ZooMass84 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:09 am
JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:51 am

Why?
1) Because flagship state universities with state populations over 1,000,000 play FBS/1A football
2) Because our academic standing has increased to the highest its ever been, See USNWR today and we are #67 in National Universities.
3) Because it was done. Essentially you are saying: "the US should not have entered WW2"; "the US should not have NASA and a space program"; "The
interstate highway system is a waste of resources" etc. Standard LSAT type questions.

You are proposing straw man arguments. It's easy to make your argument now that the football team is total joke and one of the worst in Division 1. FBS goes hand in hand with being a National University.
Actually I didn’t propose any “straw man argument” or any argument for that matter. I just asked “why?” It is all right there in print. You answered with some weird correlation and causality about population and academics, but at minimum, you need to work on your understanding of a straw man and then adjust your canned response. In any case, I have long felt it was a mistake to leave 1AA. There is nothing “now that the football team is a joke..” to that belief. None.

Finally, the reason for entering WW2 were considerably more compelling than any jump to big time football in New England. You mentioned something about a straw man? More importantly, are you sure you mean the LSAT?
are you sure you mean the LSAT? yes it would one of the Logical Reasoning questions.

Your “straw man argument” applies because of the definition:

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". Wikipedia

In 2022 the UMass Football team has been in FBS for many years now. It wasn't a canned response. You have a weird agenda that is equivalent to yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre. This message board is for supporting the football team, as bad as they are. Your fallacy is in maintaining the move should not have been made, when it is now ancient history. You are trying to refute the basis for the move when it is a moot point. It's done, live with it.You could have made the same argument for reinstating the Men's Hockey team (which sucked until they won the National Championship).
And what is a weird correlation and causality about population and academics when it is a fact? We have our highest ranking in USNWR ever and we were ranked 106 in 2010 prior to the move up.

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