Big East/ACC latest rumors

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UMassHoops
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Full court press...

Post by UMassHoops » Wed May 14, 2003 10:40 am

I hope McCaw can get it done, we'll know soon enough. I don't want to be in a one-seed conference where we can go 25-4 and still not get into the tournament, and if we do we are a 12 seed.

The administration shouldn't be spending one more minute on the mascot issue. It should be a full time assault on every contact they have in CUSA, Big East and ACC to position UMass effectively. Call in every chip, tit for tat, quid pro quo, reciprocity agreements, send hookers, whatever it takes. Showing up is 90% so get in every discussion that happens.

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A10 - A new Yankee Conference emerges?

Post by econalum » Wed May 14, 2003 10:55 am

There are a couple of twists/ironies here.

First, my guess is that the A-10 will lose the Xavier, St. Joe's, etc. Catholic gang. A10 will get stuck/merged with a disintegrating America-East gaining BU, and some of the other schools. Yankee Conference reconstituted. BU wants to move up - they have already upgraded Wolff's contract.

Second, while the ACC is a dream for UMASS to join, the women's sports are the ones that are at or near AC/Big East quality, not the men's. 1AA football remains a duck designed by committee - need to feed it a lot, and it neither floats nor flies well, and it cannot catch its own food. Maybe that is 1AA's definition, but nothing tells me 1A will ever fly here. And basketball is not strong enough to get a Big East bid on its own, I bet.

Third, The current power of UMASS Men's athletics - Hockey and Lacrosse - are unaffected. Good news.

Last, I hope McCaw is making calls proactively, not sitting in focus groups monitoring the logo self-made crisis. If we do not put this logo deal on hold for a month, it will be fiddling while Rome burns.
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Post by philosopher » Wed May 14, 2003 4:22 pm

:? I have no idea what the configuration of a new conference, in which UMass would be a fit, could resemble! A newly reconstituted Yankee Conference is one suggested idea. Hopefully, something a bit more stimulating could be devised, but without the $$$ that just isn't in the cards. It would be a shame to lose the connections with GW, Richmond, St. Joe's, and X in basketball. Yes, we might be able to add Holy Cross and BU into the mix, but that's not an even swap. Similarly, it would be a waste to lose Bill and Mary, Delaware, Hofstra, and Maine in football. Staying D1-AA and losing everything south of the Mason Dixon line is a losing proposition.

For a long time I've felt that the D1-AA in football was like the DH in the American League. Just another bad idea. And as new power conferences are being built in sports in which UMass has a chance to excel, but is being excluded, there is no reason to change my view.

THIS is why Ian McCaw gets the bucks and I don't. Let's hope he can find the answers before UMass becomes what it once was: an afterthought west of Rte. 128.

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Post by MAD » Wed May 14, 2003 7:17 pm

It's not as simple as vote for a 'good' conference the rejiggered Big East or a 'crappy' one, the America East or CAA. Remember the A-10 has always been a Triple A league (along with C-USA) hovering a notch below the six BCS conferences. Want proof? In the last 10 years (actually it's a bit longer) 37 of the 40 Final Four teams were from the behemouth leagues. The interlopers, Marquette this year, Utah in 98 and UMass in 96.

In all likelihood the six remaining BE football schools would want to add three other D-1A schools to the mix and hold onto a tenuous BCS bowl berth until a playoff happens. After that they'd still want an auto bid to the football tourney. An all-Catholic league fails in that no league in this day and age wants to be that provincial.

Yes UMass is second to BC in the Boston market, but when the Eagles fly off to the ACC UMass has a miuch higher profile (and tv exposure) in the new Big East. Barring a crusade by the Catholic schools (all Catholic all the time) I dare say UMass would be a natural fit. The biggest drawback is a disintereted fanbase that basically ignores the program unless the team is REAL good.

It'll be interesting to see what McCaw/Lombardi can do in a far more important issue than the mascot flap.
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!!!

Post by Quinn » Wed May 14, 2003 7:40 pm

Good news everyone!

I've spoken to a few of my sources and it seems that we might not be completly out of any conference realignment.

The Big East is about to react in a big way: ousting the 6 non-football members. The most likely scenario is still a new conference made up of:

Providence
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Villanova
Georgetown
Notre Dame
Xavier
Dayton
Depaul
Marquette

Another school the group has expressed interest in has been Richmond.

From what I'm hearing, the new Big East, if Miami stays, is going to try hard to keep Notre Dame, even is it's not for football (they'd be in with fellow catholic school BC). If that happens, there will be 5 teams from the current Big East.

I don't know the specifics of what the A10 ADs talked about during their conference call, or any potential side deals the member schools have discussed, but there is 1 scenario being bounced around that would include us. But it's a bit unlikely:

The A10 ousts Fordham, St. Bonaventure, Duquesne and LaSalle

North:
UMass
URI
Providence
Seton Hall
St. Johns
St. Josephs

South:
Villanova
Georgetown
George Washington
Richmond
Xavier
Dayton

What would need to take place?
1) Notre Dame goes with the Big East football schools
2) Temple joins the Big East football schools as an all-sport member
3) The A10 boots the 4 schools mentioned
4) Georgetown doesn't object to participating in a conference with GW.

It's not likely, but I hope that Bruno, Ian, as the rest of the ADs are working the phones to the Big East 5 and come up with a plan. Losing Xavier, Dayton and Temple for Butler, Detroit and BU just isn't going to cut it.

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Post by class of 62-64 » Thu May 15, 2003 12:54 am

I'm having a little problem understanding the Big East football schooll analysis. If they lose Miami, Syracuse and either BC or VT what's left? Seems like it would be a bunch of I-AA caliber programs calling themselves a I-A league. And what happens to UConn's I-A program in that event. Will Temple fill their stadium?

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Post by MAD » Thu May 15, 2003 6:11 am

Here it is as simple as I can make it.

IF the change happens as anticipated the six 1-A programs of the BE (Va Tech, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Temple and UConn) would pick up three teams from other non-BCS alligned conferences. The most likely suspects would be Louisville and Cincinnati from C-USA and Marshall from the MAC. There is SOME possibilty such a league could keep its place at the BCS table. If ACC football could exist for over 10 years as basically Florida State's league, its possible BE football could continue as Va Tech's league.
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Post by Quinn » Thu May 15, 2003 6:17 am

class of 62-64 wrote:I'm having a little problem understanding the Big East football schooll analysis. If they lose Miami, Syracuse and either BC or VT what's left? Seems like it would be a bunch of I-AA caliber programs calling themselves a I-A league. And what happens to UConn's I-A program in that event. Will Temple fill their stadium?
The plan the Big East is trying work right now is an attempt to retain it's members. Trained-Geese thinks that the Big East can survive by splitting into 2 entities. If Miami and company leave, they'll come up with a new plan.

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Post by UMass87 » Thu May 15, 2003 6:54 am

It is a fairly good bet that if Syracuse is among three BE teams that join the ACC then Pitt will be invited into the Big 10 (remember, the Big 10 wants one more team - Syracuse would, I believe, be their first choice). This assumes that Notre Dame is stupid enough to assume they can continue as an independent.

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Post by fbiman » Thu May 15, 2003 7:46 am

How funny would it be, if all of this shakes out, that UConn is left out in the cold? After all of the upgrading they did, they'll go from having potential football home games against Miami, Syracuse, BC, and VA Tech, to playing the CONF USA football retreads.
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Post by Rocks22 » Thu May 15, 2003 7:56 am

If you want a laugh head over to their board where they ponder the question of "Why Syracuse, BC and Virginia Tech, why not us?"

Still, their football upgrade at least gives them a place at the table in terms of realignment instead of being a total cast away like Seton Hall, GTown, etc.

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Post by Kosty » Thu May 15, 2003 8:05 am

Two things....

Wait....UCan't is actually pondering why THEY wouldn't be invited to the new ACC??? Are the phlucking kidding???? Seriously....are they for real???? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Second.....do you honestly think the BCS would still allow the Big East a bid in the BCS Bowls with the potential for Marshall to be in a BCS bowl???? No way that happens. Or god forbide Pitt. Or Cincy??? Dear Lord, the Gods of Football would not stand for that!!!!

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Post by Orange Julius » Thu May 15, 2003 8:38 am

Lost in all of this merriment over what might happen to ucon is what might happen to US. I've been reading all these articles and projections about what could happen and I don't like what I am reading. Our 1-AA football program as good as it is at that level doesn't do squat for us when it comes to getting to the table. The Catholic basketball schools arelikely to band together taking Dayton & Xavier from us and Marquette from Conf. USA. Temple may also leave to play 1-A football somehere. Where would that leave us? Well, it'd leave us in a pumped up America East!!! We'd become UNH. A good hockey team with a 1-AA football team and irrelevant on the national scene (even as bad as we've been in basketball we've still been on national TV and the potential for exposure is still there). What I find funnier is that BC will be in a football division with Florida State and Miami in addition to Georgia Tech, Clemson and Syracuse which would insure many losing football season.

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Post by Crank » Thu May 15, 2003 9:29 am

I concurr with OJ. While I do derive some amusement at UConn's plight, ours is potentially much worse. If this "Catholic Conference" comes to pass, what are our options? We'd most likely be stuck with one of two scenarios: 1. A watered down A10, something like this: UMass, URI, LaSalle, St. Joes, Richmond, Duquesne, Fordham, GW, St. Bonaventure, BU. Or 2. An America East/Colonial hybrid such as this: UMass, URI, Maine, UNH, Delaware, James Madison, Hofstra, William & Mary, Richmond, Towson.

Don't those look like wonderful options? We may be teetering on the brink of National oblivion right now. It looks to me like there's only one quality "non 1A" conference that's going to come out of this shakeup (the one based on the Big East's basketball only schools). If we can't convince them to make us a part of that league, we've got major problems.

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WVU

Post by whiterhino42 » Thu May 15, 2003 9:33 am

Another unhappy school is WVU. Remember, they may be struggling in basketball but they have always had a top rate football program. I was there about a month ago and they have a big time stadium. 5 of their seniors from this year will be in training camps when the NFL gets underway this year, and they didn't even have a great season this past year. I've been reading some of their stuff, and they are NOT happy about Miami leaving the big east and possibly Syracuse and VT and them getting left in the cold. Rumors are starting to fly that they will bolt from the big east if this happens and lobby the big 10 to become a member.

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