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Anything and everything that is UMass Minutemen Basketball.
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VoxPop
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Post by VoxPop » Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:33 pm

DS Bruce Robertson wrote: If it's really too difficult to differentiate between the manner in which "quit" is intended and the way it can possibly be inferred, then I'll just replace it with "resigned themselves to an inevitable negative outcome".
More BS "analysis" from Bruce.

Tell me Bruce where did you get your Phd. in Psychiatry and when did you conduct your forensic psychological evaluations of the players to determine their mind set? Was it before or after the team gave a 100% vote of confidence in the coaching staff to McCutcheon? Do tell Dr. Brucey!
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Post by Feato » Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:20 pm

DS Bruce Robertson wrote:
Feato wrote:and if they had truly quit, do you think they'd still be playing as much as they are right now, much less on the team?

Quit might be too strong of a word, yes, but I can't think of anything else at the moment that would be an acceptable alternative...if someone does, feel free to chime in.
What is Lappas going to do? Shove more players out the door? These players are as good as he can get, and certainly better than he deserves. It's not like he could get less talented players to ignore his excuse making and blameshifting. He has never maximized his roster. Ever.

If it's really too difficult to differentiate between the manner in which "quit" is intended and the way it can possibly be inferred, then I'll just replace it with "resigned themselves to an inevitable negative outcome".
True he might have gotten away with it a bit with hardly anyone on the roster as is, but that's also when you play the walk-ons et Al a lot more then what they normally would get. I'm sure they'd WANT to play, no?

Oh wait, then he'd really look bad...hmmmm, I see a rock and I see a hard place. T-minus 71 days until Game 1.
MF



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Post by harbo » Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:55 pm

VoxPop wrote: ....when did you conduct your forensic psychological evaluations of the players to determine their mind set?
In sports, it's easy to spot players' mind sets. And they are usually reflected in the results. Teams will lose their swagger when they realize they are overmatched and they lose that edge. When the RedSox got tied in the eighth inning of last year's final game , you could see in their faces that they just knew their chances were slim. The Lakers went into the NBA Finals with their usual swagger, but it was gone not long into most of the games and they were overmatched. I didn't see one second of Team USA, but I imagine anyone watching them knew they didn't "feel it".

Same with last season at UMass, especially in the last nine games. First, it's got to be discouraging to walk into a less than half-full Mullins Center with only a handful of students cheering for you (there ya go, IV). After battling back to tie Dayton, you give up an 8-1 run in the waning minutes, which you are unable to answer with a run of your own. Then you go to Xavier and fall behind by 12 at halftime and have no answer to comeback. Then you come home to play URI, a team you beat on the road, play a tight game, then give up a 14-2 run in the second half and have no answer to comeback. Then you go to Fordham and the Rams use a 17-4 run to go out to a 19 point halftime lead. You counter with a 7-0 run, only to have the Rams throw an 11-2 run, essentially ending the game because you have no answer. Then St. Joe's comes to town (if they had two losses, I bet the attendance that night would have been under 5,000). An early UMass lead is wiped out with runs of 12-0, 9-1 and 8-0 and they had no answer against those. Then two nice games for UMass. They did answer Temple's 16-point lead to send it into 2 OT's, but could not hold a lead as Temple pulls away at the end. And they had an answer for Richmond's early 13-point lead, but the best they could do was cut it to two. Then mecifully, Duquesne put an end to the pain in a back-and forth game when UMass could not hold a 4-point lead with a minute and a half to go, instead giving up an 8 point run to the mighty Dukes, and unable to answer.

The kids didn't quit, but in the back of their minds, you know they knew that something would go wrong and there would be no answer. They all came from winning high school traditions, but they learned what life is like on the other side.

I just realized what a monumental waste of time researching this post was. But I present the facts about the games, you all can figure out the cause.

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Post by Feato » Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:16 am

put this guy on the sidelines...
MF



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Post by VoxPop » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:08 am

Harbo where did you get your Phd from? or are you a mind reader? First you call players quitters then you pretend you can read minds? Just too damned funny. Lets see if you can dig that hole a bit deeper.
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Post by DS Bruce Robertson » Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:49 am

Jesus, Papillon. You're pathetic. Either they quit on the coach or they suck. Now which do you think it is? I think they quit on the coach. It's obvious what you think about them.
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Post by eldonabe » Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:45 am

Quit is probably too strong a word, the team just let down. At that level (D1) if they even let down a little other teams will kick the shit out of them.

That is what happened. Lets say for argument that they did not "let down on the coach". Instead lets say they let down on the system - which of course we all know was DEVELOPED BY THE COACH!

The current system did not give that group of players the best chance to win - THAT was proven time and time again - and the players knew it!

Unfortunaltey the mantra of this coach is "if it's broke, don't fix it". "His players" are not managing in the system that he is implementing so instead of changing course - players leave "voluntarilly" and he replaces them with new players who also seem unable to fit.

For all of the crap that I give Bruiser, the team that Lap inherited is better that we have today.



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Post by VoxPop » Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:44 am

Ebabe- the 04-05 UMass team would beat the 01-02 squad. Lets just wait and see how this season goes before you already start shovelling dirt on them. Its gonna be a good season and a fun team to root for.

DS Bruce Robertson wrote:Jesus, Papillon. You're pathetic. Either they quit on the coach or they suck. Now which do you think it is? I think they quit on the coach. It's obvious what you think about them.
Bruce that is the stupidest thing you have ever posted.

There are no quitters on this team and your insistance that these guys are quitters is just some outrageous BS. I would Love to see you walk into a practice/weightroom where these guys work their asses off trying to get better every day and tell anybody on this team that he is a quitter and that he has quit on the coach. The truth is that You have quit on the coach. You are under the serious delusion that you can read the minds of the players and that you have determined that they share your opinions. Nobody on this team is a quitter. No one of these fine young men has quit on themselves, this program or the coach. You are an idiot for trashing these guys who deserve your support.

Third they don't suck at all. They are the most talented group of young ballplayers (yes Bruce they are in reality a young team) we've had on campus in YEARS. They are hard working, talented, strong and dedicated to themselves, each other. the coaching staff and UMass. They do not suck - you suck for even suggesting such bullshit.


You really ought to think about how stupid you sound when you post that either the players are quitters or they suck. There are numerous reasons why teams lose basketball games - it just doesn't come down to they "suck" or they "quit". That is precisely the type of dumbass oversimplification that is just stupid its impossible that you even stopped to think about what you were saying before you submitted it.

Are you looking for a reason games are lost? how about sloppy execution, getting out coached, the other team is better, inexperience, conditioning, matchups, bad luck, bad calls, stupid fouls, poor substitutions etc. There hundreds of reasons why teams lose games - it does not come down to quitting or sucking. IMHO UMass lost far too many games last season because of poor coaching and/or poor execution. IMHO nobody on this team is a quitter in fact I know it is the opposite is true - these guys play hard and practice hard. I also know they don't suck - they are talented and improving as players, individuals and as a team. And they are going to be a fun team to root for this season.

These guys are great young men there is just no need to trash them because you hate the coach.

.
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Post by obg » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:03 am

The title of this thread should have been "Diarrhea of the Keyboard!"
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Post by fbiman » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:19 am

obg wrote:The title of this thread should have been "Diarrhea of the Keyboard!"
Well said.
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Post by VoxPop » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:44 am

Is somebody holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read the thread?
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Post by fbiman » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:51 am

Is someone holding a gun to your head compelling you to engage in a flame war with DS Bruce on just about every single thread? Or is it pride f*cking with you?
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Post by DS Bruce Robertson » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:56 am

Papillon, who are you grandstanding for exactly? You do realize that people can read what I write and aren't going to be fooled into believing your spin on my comments simply because you steadfastly reamain on message and keep hitting your "you trash the players and hate the coach" talking points, don't you? Do you really still think that you are capable of mischaracterizing my comments? You aren't. I don't trash the players and I don't hate Lappas. I just hate what his ineptitude has done to the UMass basketball program and lament the opportunity that was wasted when he was hired instead of a coach that could thrive in this setting and I can't wait for a fresh start without him after this season.

I have repeatedly said that the players aren't the problem and I haven't trashed them in the least. Not once. Not ever. It's not trashing them to point out that they realize that they're helpless on the court once coaching adjustments start being made during a game because Lappas is a liability and will not have an answer. Many other people have chimed in and have made similar observations to mine, though anxiety about semantics causes them to be hesitant to use the word "quit".

The fact is these kids are talented (though not more talented than any team UMass has seen since the late 80's) and I believe they do want to win as they still remember what it was like and I believe that they practice hard and they still lose because they are overmatched, even when they have a decided talent advantage simply because Lappas can't make adjustments, can't adaquately instruct his team and can't keep them properly motivated because his methods don't translate into success and there is no reason for them to believe they will. In fact, there were quotes from players last year that indicated that they weren't even buying his excuses, either.
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Post by VoxPop » Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:24 am

Bruce you cannot have it both ways. In 1 post you say they quit or suck. Now you say its neither and that Lappas is to blame for everything. you flip flop more than bush does.

Just because you don't think this team will be successful doesn't mean the players agree with you Brucey. Once again when you start pretending that you know what other people think, your feet are planted firmly in thin air. Plenty of people think that this team will be successful this season - hard work and sticking together is what this is about. It ain't about quitting and moping and whining about the coach like you seem to think is the way to go.
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Post by UMass02 » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:18 pm

I think we found two new guest hosts for Pardon the Interruption.

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