First reaction: UMass to the MAC

[stevemaz]

I do wonder if this is the beginning of the end for the A-10 as a top mid major basketball conference. Even if we haven't exactly been a top tier A-10 program for awhile we were 1 of the last 3 remaining schools left (GW, Duquesne the other 2), that were founding members when the conference started back in 1975. I could see Dayton and VCU bolting in the near future for greener pastures.

It probably is. I expect UConn to leave Big East soon and Big East adds Dayton at least. If Richmond were smart,they would immediately get going on moving up to FBS to joing the MAC or CUSA.

[stevemaz]

I am just concerned about our basketball program, i look at the MAC schools and can't get excited over the schools we will be playing and future recruits will be doing the same. yes we will be competitive in the league, but the level of play and players will go down.
This seemed very evident, when Coach Frank was asked to compare conferences Atlantic 10 vs MAC, and he totally avoided the question, saying something like " I haven't had time to access the level of play of the MAC, I am focused on this season and winning games". Seriously, he has been coaching college basketball for many years and he is unable to compare level of play between two conferences and he is good friends with a couple of MAC coaches. Just seems strange, as he must have learned about this move at least a few weeks ago if not months and he hasn't found the time to think about the impact on his job.
By him not saying anything, I think it is giving us the answer.

You should read the response from the Toledo coach and Bamford’s comments putting the MAC on notice about how much we will spend on hoops. We are in the A10 for one more year. We are going to be the program that raises the bar and challenges other MAC schools to invest in hoops. The MAC has a year to try to match our investment.

No question the MAC schools will increase budgets.

[eldonabe]

Hey UDel did what was best for them and we did what was best for us. This has a feel of a long term commitment. The investment in athletics will accelerate with 8 to 10 times the conference revenue growth. As our AD said, we are hitting the gas, no brakes. Frank Martin is a real team player, his wife ran track at UMass, football helps raise all programs and their budgets all went up from his career. Don Brown and Frank Martin had offices next to each other at Northeastern. They both recruit in programs that were at the bottom with no bells and whistles. You recruit players that believe in your vision, the school and not the conference.

I am willing to bet that MAC was Umass' ONLY option. In regard to getting into a football conference, sure, they did what might (and arguably) be best for them, but this was likely an all or nothing choice. I am also willing to bet that Delaware had at least 2 or more suitors for their affiliation.

I don't know, and at this point I don't actually care. They gotta win some games now... period.

[DEM]

^
For what it's worth, I peaked at the MAC forums the past week, and the opposite was claimed. If I recall correctly, the story is that the MAC declined Delaware's bid, as they preferred not to have an FCS call-up, and their basketball program doesn't add as much as UMass's does. And from UMass's pov, C-USA is worse in terms of travel. So MAC-UMass was the better fit on both sides, allegedly. It makes sense to me, at least.

[InnervisionsUMASS]

... The MAC has a year to try to match our investment.

And while I believe those (or most, at least) will be putting more money in, they certainly won't be matching our investment in just 1 year. And if they did, there would probably be some pissed off alum, coaches and even players at those schools asking why they didn't do that sooner.

[picketyp]

I do wonder if this is the beginning of the end for the A-10 as a top mid major basketball conference. Even if we haven't exactly been a top tier A-10 program for awhile we were 1 of the last 3 remaining schools left (GW, Duquesne the other 2), that were founding members when the conference started back in 1975. I could see Dayton and VCU bolting in the near future for greener pastures.

It probably is. I expect UConn to leave Big East soon and Big East adds Dayton at least. If Richmond were smart,they would immediately get going on moving up to FBS to joing the MAC or CUSA.

Definitely agree that UConn is a possibility to leave the Big East depending on how the ACC moves shake out.

I see no way in which Richmond is ever in consideration for the MAC, they'd be a total culture misfit. It's a private liberal arts school with less than a quarter the enrollment of the smallest MAC institution. I guess things could change but at this point the MAC seems consistently focused on public research universities.

[InnervisionsUMASS]

Definitely agree that UConn is a possibility to leave the Big East depending on how the ACC moves shake out.

I see no way in which Richmond is ever in consideration for the MAC, they'd be a total culture misfit. It's a private liberal arts school with less than a quarter the enrollment of the smallest MAC institution. I guess things could change but at this point the MAC seems consistently focused on public research universities.

I agree, Richmond isn't a good MAC fit. I do think, and have thought this for awhile, that they are a school that should upgrade to FBS. I think they'd be a good fit in the CUSA, and would have made a nice partner for us and UDel had we gone there.

[dennisdent]

^
For what it's worth, I peaked at the MAC forums the past week, and the opposite was claimed. If I recall correctly, the story is that the MAC declined Delaware's bid, as they preferred not to have an FCS call-up, and their basketball program doesn't add as much as UMass's does. And from UMass's pov, C-USA is worse in terms of travel. So MAC-UMass was the better fit on both sides, allegedly. It makes sense to me, at least.

This just shows how MAC fans aren't the brightest bulbs . FCS call-ups such as JMU/App State/GSU/JSU, had almost immediate success at the FBS level and brought large fan bases. UD should be competitive also at the FBS level pretty fast and of course brings a great fan base. UD's hoops may not have the name recognition as a UMass but they are 18 - 13 and the attendance is averaging 900 less than UMass per game. From what I heard from UD people is they wanted a more national footprint of CUSA, unlike the more regional of the MAC.

[Quann]

I doubt the MAC turned Delaware down. Would have been a new market for them. Next closest school was in Ohio. Then adding us, you start to cover the entire northeast to midatlantic. Also they’ve always had a solid fan base for football, whole state of Delaware supports them.

[pk77]

I am just concerned about our basketball program, i look at the MAC schools and can't get excited over the schools we will be playing and future recruits will be doing the same. yes we will be competitive in the league, but the level of play and players will go down.
This seemed very evident, when Coach Frank was asked to compare conferences Atlantic 10 vs MAC, and he totally avoided the question, saying something like " I haven't had time to access the level of play of the MAC, I am focused on this season and winning games". Seriously, he has been coaching college basketball for many years and he is unable to compare level of play between two conferences and he is good friends with a couple of MAC coaches. Just seems strange, as he must have learned about this move at least a few weeks ago if not months and he hasn't found the time to think about the impact on his job.
By him not saying anything, I think it is giving us the answer.

You should read the response from the Toledo coach and Bamford’s comments putting the MAC on notice about how much we will spend on hoops. We are in the A10 for one more year. We are going to be the program that raises the bar and challenges other MAC schools to invest in hoops. The MAC has a year to try to match our investment.

No question the MAC schools will increase budgets.

The following is the conference RPI ranking for college basketball over the last 5 years for the Atlantic 10 and MAC.
atlantic 10 MAC
2019 8 12
2020 13 18
2021 10 18
2022 11 20
2023 8 22


if i go back to the 2011 to 2016 years the atlantic 10 each year was the 7th highest RPI, whereas the MAC was around the 15 th. So yes the atlantic 10 has slipped but are from the 20's that the MAC has slipped to. So what makes us think that all of a sudden the MAC schools are going to invest in basketball. Oh thats right, they are going to start investing because old mighty UMass is now in the league and Bamford is stating that he is going to put more money into our program.

[stevemaz]

Definitely agree that UConn is a possibility to leave the Big East depending on how the ACC moves shake out.

I see no way in which Richmond is ever in consideration for the MAC, they'd be a total culture misfit. It's a private liberal arts school with less than a quarter the enrollment of the smallest MAC institution. I guess things could change but at this point the MAC seems consistently focused on public research universities.

I agree, Richmond isn't a good MAC fit. I do think, and have thought this for awhile, that they are a school that should upgrade to FBS. I think they'd be a good fit in the CUSA, and would have made a nice partner for us and UDel had we gone there.

For some reason i was thinking they were public, but that is VCU..

[stevemaz]

You should read the response from the Toledo coach and Bamford’s comments putting the MAC on notice about how much we will spend on hoops. We are in the A10 for one more year. We are going to be the program that raises the bar and challenges other MAC schools to invest in hoops. The MAC has a year to try to match our investment.

No question the MAC schools will increase budgets.

The following is the conference RPI ranking for college basketball over the last 5 years for the Atlantic 10 and MAC.
atlantic 10 MAC
2019 8 12
2020 13 18
2021 10 18
2022 11 20
2023 8 22


if i go back to the 2011 to 2016 years the atlantic 10 each year was the 7th highest RPI, whereas the MAC was around the 15 th. So yes the atlantic 10 has slipped but are from the 20's that the MAC has slipped to. So what makes us think that all of a sudden the MAC schools are going to invest in basketball. Oh thats right, they are going to start investing because old mighty UMass is now in the league and Bamford is stating that he is going to put more money into our program.

They are going to invest because revenues are increasing dramatically from football tv revenue..

[UMass'96]

Bamford could also be playing the long game here with this increased investment. Basically showing other higher profile conferences that UMass is serious about athletics and is starting to put its money where its mouth is. Show some early success in MAC with hoops and football and then hope that the serious invites start coming....

Or, I could be completely off the mark...

[69MG]

^ I think your logic is spot on. I also don't think the MAC is a long-term option for us. 4 or 5 years of success (in both sports) should have higher level conferences looking at us. Of course, who knows what those higher level conferences will look like in 4 or 5 years.

[pk77]

The thing that i get upset about with Bamford stating that he is now going to invest more into the programs, is that if he only did this during Mark Whipple's return to coach football at Umass , we would not be in this big mess and losing so many games. Yes, Bamford stepped up to pay Whipple to come, but did not give him the money he needed to hire a good staff to support him.
If you remember Whipple had to take on both the head coaching position and head offense coordinator positions to save money. On top of that, he had to cheap out on hiring his assistants with little to no experience including x players.
In other words, the extra money they paid him to come was just taken away out of the assistant coaches fund.
Whipple would have had this program in the right direction if he was allowed to spend money on quality assistants and I can guarantee you that our team would be putting up a lot more points on the score board !