Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

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Calmass9
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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by Calmass9 » Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:51 pm

The full quote that Minutemaniac74 posted is honestly worse than the part Niles grabbed. Excuse after excuse after excuse without taking an ounce of blame or ownership for how the season has gone. He threw his walkons under the bus for Christ sake. How are people honestly defending that quote?

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devildawg3010
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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by devildawg3010 » Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:14 am

McCalls first year after Mt. Holloway was academically ineligible 1/3 and Baldwin got injured 1/23, they had 6 scholarship players left on the team. McCall recruited FB QB West.That team finished 13-20 and 5-13 in A10. 13th in A10. With one win in A10 tourney.

Martins first year they have 13 scholarship players, even with 3 out that makes 10, why did he say 8? Maybe 5 on 5 missing your#1 and 2 PG? Don't blame the walk ons for losing games. As of today are 13-12 4-9. And second to last place as well. I know losing Noah hurts, but I still thought we would be better than we are.

Worcester_To_Amherst
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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by Worcester_To_Amherst » Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:04 am

Many of us were impressed with the way McCall’s pseudo D1 team played in year 1. Fun team to root for with West and Rayshawn getting big minutes.

This is a disappointing year no matter the injuries. Even without Noah this team is nowhere near the 2nd worst roster in the league, but that’s where they are in the standings.

I emotionally disengaged after St Joes, and thank god because the last 3 games of playing a good first half and then getting dismantled in the 2nd have been frustrating.

With the talent on the squad anything could still happen this year if working with a full roster. If it doesn’t work out so be it, but I personally expected more from this team and coach. Next year will likely make or break the Frank era in Amherst.

NilesGold
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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by NilesGold » Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:14 am

minutefanjsf wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:35 pm
NilesGold wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:03 pm ^ I did cherry-pick, but they're not out of context... those two are not the same thing.
That is the definition of out of context.
I suggest you look up the definitions of both as I just did and you will see they are not the same.

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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by Juice Stand » Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:40 am

This is tough. On the one hand, I'm trying my best to be like Floyd and have some patience and understand that it's not just that a few guys have been injured, it's that it's your best player and his backup, so the point guard spot is decimated. Not a knock on TJ, but you simply can't win with him playing so many minutes at point. It's not his position. Your offense is going to struggle because you don't have ball handlers and facilitators, and your perimeter defense is going to struggle.

On the other hand, it's the way these losses have been happening, and then not only the comments from Frank, but his in game body language. Not a single one of these during the losing streak have been close. I've chalked this up to being gassed from not having enough guys, but then others reminded me of McCall's first year playing a walk-on and a backup quarterback significant minutes and making it work (to an extent). Then you look at Frank and he's pouting, arms crossed, not doing a whole heck of a lot, and then he bemoans the players for not having a competitive spirit. I read the whole quote, top to bottom, and it's the second time in recent weeks that he's talked about "kids these days". It stinks, and the leadership starts at the top. He needs to take ownership and do better.

I still really like this roster, and Frank's past successes aren't a fluke, but it's darn close to soul searching time. He recruited most of these guys. This isn't a squad of McCall's leftover scrubs. These are his guys. He needs to coach them up.

minutefanjsf
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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by minutefanjsf » Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:16 am

NilesGold wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:14 am
minutefanjsf wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:35 pm
NilesGold wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:03 pm ^ I did cherry-pick, but they're not out of context... those two are not the same thing.
That is the definition of out of context.
I suggest you look up the definitions of both as I just did and you will see they are not the same.
https://scienceornot.net/2012/04/03/dev ... y-picking/ You mean like this?

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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by Juice Stand » Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:28 am

Here's another bad quote that I hope I'm not taking out of context. Pulled directly from the Collegian article: https://dailycollegian.com/2023/02/umas ... ight-loss/:
“I thought [Luis] was really, really bad defensively,” Martin said. “I mean, he’s a talented young man, so you put the ball in hands in the middle of the floor he’s going to figure out a way to score. I probably shouldn’t have played him today, I probably should’ve waited until Tuesday.”
Is he saying he rushed a freshman back from a head injury to soon? That's bad. Is he saying that because RJ is flawed defensively (who wasn't yesterday?), that he shouldn't have played, even though he singlehandedly kept us in the game for a stretch in the second half? I'm just not sure what he's getting at here, but it's all bad, and all on him.

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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by NilesGold » Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:33 am

minutefanjsf wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:16 am
NilesGold wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:14 am
minutefanjsf wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:35 pm

That is the definition of out of context.
I suggest you look up the definitions of both as I just did and you will see they are not the same.
https://scienceornot.net/2012/04/03/dev ... y-picking/ You mean like this?
Not the same thing

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cherry-pick
verb (used with object)
to select with great care:
Out of the scores of zombie movies, this reviewer has cherry-picked some of the best ones for fans.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... of-context
PHRASE
If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended.

minutefanjsf
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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by minutefanjsf » Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:06 am

NilesGold wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:33 am
minutefanjsf wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:16 am
NilesGold wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:14 am

I suggest you look up the definitions of both as I just did and you will see they are not the same.
https://scienceornot.net/2012/04/03/dev ... y-picking/ You mean like this?
Not the same thing

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cherry-pick
verb (used with object)
to select with great care:
Out of the scores of zombie movies, this reviewer has cherry-picked some of the best ones for fans.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... of-context
PHRASE
If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended.
Cherry picking is a verb, out of context is prepositional phrase that is used as an adjective. When one cherry picks they are providing information out of context. When cherry picking data, as the example I provided for you, it is not not just selecting with great care, it is choosing data that supports the perspective of the researcher, etc.

You chose parts of what he said and provided your own context. I don’t think what he said was “good”.

minutefanjsf
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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by minutefanjsf » Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:13 am

Juice Stand wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:28 am Here's another bad quote that I hope I'm not taking out of context. Pulled directly from the Collegian article: https://dailycollegian.com/2023/02/umas ... ight-loss/:
“I thought [Luis] was really, really bad defensively,” Martin said. “I mean, he’s a talented young man, so you put the ball in hands in the middle of the floor he’s going to figure out a way to score. I probably shouldn’t have played him today, I probably should’ve waited until Tuesday.”
Is he saying he rushed a freshman back from a head injury to soon? That's bad. Is he saying that because RJ is flawed defensively (who wasn't yesterday?), that he shouldn't have played, even though he singlehandedly kept us in the game for a stretch in the second half? I'm just not sure what he's getting at here, but it's all bad, and all on him.
I don’t know what else was said either. Sounds to me like he is saying he put RJ in a position he was not ready for. Might not be rushing back from the head injury, could be conditioning. With head injuries, all physical activity is sometimes stopped. If he spent the last week or two not running etc. he likely lost a step. Or it could be he rushed a kid back. I agree he is saying playing him was not the right move, for defense.

dennisdent
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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by dennisdent » Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:15 am

Martin needs to shut his big mouth and coach this team better! He's the same coach that he was at the end of his time at South Carolina--good recruiter, mediocre at best coach. We are all hoping for the KSU Martin, but right now that is long in the past. Hopefully he will take the off season to relax and get his head in the right place. Both his in game body langue and post game comments for a first year head coach at new program are very disconcerting! All this from a head coach who was fighting people on twitter during the fall...

NilesGold
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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by NilesGold » Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:38 am

minutefanjsf wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:06 am
NilesGold wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:33 am
minutefanjsf wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:16 am

https://scienceornot.net/2012/04/03/dev ... y-picking/ You mean like this?
Not the same thing

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cherry-pick
verb (used with object)
to select with great care:
Out of the scores of zombie movies, this reviewer has cherry-picked some of the best ones for fans.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... of-context
PHRASE
If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended.
Cherry picking is a verb, out of context is prepositional phrase that is used as an adjective. When one cherry picks they are providing information out of context. When cherry picking data, as the example I provided for you, it is not not just selecting with great care, it is choosing data that supports the perspective of the researcher, etc.

You chose parts of what he said and provided your own context. I don’t think what he said was “good”.
Quoting a piece of what someone has said doesn't mean it's out of context. What I quoted was very much within the context of what Frank was saying.

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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by Floyd » Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:44 am

For the naysayers, just curious but after we run Frank out of town, who we getting to come to UMass, or who would want to? Can we at least give the guy 3 yrs to recruit a couple cycles and see where we are? At least give him a reasonable shot? Was the early start and Myrtle Beach tourney just a fluke when we had a full, healthy roster? We might not be the top of the A10 now but I'm pretty confident we would be looking at 17-8 or so. It doesn't take a lot sometimes to separate teams in this league and we've taken some big blows, especially Noah, who I think is more important to the team than people think. Just ride out the shit, things will get better
Time to Win

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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by NilesGold » Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:59 am

Floyd wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:44 am For the naysayers, just curious but after we run Frank out of town, who we getting to come to UMass, or who would want to? Can we at least give the guy 3 yrs to recruit a couple cycles and see where we are? At least give him a reasonable shot?
No one is running Frank out, we're raising serious concerns about his coaching performance. I don't know the specifics of the buyout clause in his contract, but I'd be shocked if UMass bought him out after 3 seasons or less. I would hope that Bamford is having serious talks with Frank about what's happening, and if Frank is expressing any doubts about his desire to stay it might be best for everyone if they tear up the contract so both parties can move in another direction.

The number of coaches we should be able to attract for $1M+ is extremely long. I don't have specific names, but I'd suggest we get someone who has an ability to connect & motivate the players of today
Last edited by NilesGold on Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Game 25, 2022-23: at La Salle (2/11)

Post by NDR18 » Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:02 pm

We went for the big name with this hire. So far not to many folks like what they see. I know we threw a lot of money at him, but I’m ok if chooses not to stick around. My gut is telling me he is not the right guy for UMASS basketball. I rather have a lower profile coach that connects with his players, doesn’t demean them and takes responsibility for the team when clearly he’s not.

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