Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by stevemaz » Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:14 pm

Being there in person a few times my feeling is that our best 5 players are in no specific order.. Fernandes, Cross, Kante, Diggins, Luis. This is what i would go with on starting lineup until Gapare is ready to start over Luis. At this time my bench would be Weeks, Leveque, Gapare as primary guys then sprinkle in some Martin, Dominquez, or Keon as a 9th man (maybe sometimes use a 10th man) Im not sure why Gianni is pretty much our 12th man as i expected more out of him.

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by Worcester_To_Amherst » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:03 pm

eldonabe wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:47 am
Worcester_To_Amherst wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:05 am I watched the game on replay. Made it through the first half and then Wildens' missed bunny to start the 2nd. Fast forwarded the rest of the way hoping they'd get the score close but no. Preface being I didn't see the whole game.

Couple thoughts. Really disappointing student turnout. Surprising even for UMass.

Agree with everyone else that Frank's rotations were a mess. I'm OK with running 10 guys against CCSU and Dartmouth but it would have been nice to win this game, especially if they have sights set on postseason play. He did not give them a chance to win with his substitutions. The "2nd unit" took the lead in the first half and once he took them out they never got back into the game.

I saw on Twitter someone say the lineup should be Noah, Diggins, Weeks, Cross, and Kante/Wildens. I would include DD as one of the core rotation guys along with Cross and Weeks, with Weeks coming off the bench maybe. I think Diggins needs to get a lot more playing time. He's shown the ability to get to the rim which is something this team needs. He has no college experience, so time to start giving it to him.

Brandon Martin played way too much in this one. I will be concerned if this continues in Myrtle.

I still like the roster as long as Weeks, Cross, and Noah can provide the deep ball consistently. Still optimistic about the season, and I think the early predictions of this being a team that gels in Jan/Feb could be right on the money.
I mentioned this same observation from Game #1 and got a little pushed aside.
I think he's limited in what he can do so some games he should get 15 minutes other games maybe 0. I didn't have an issue with his usage in game 1 but against Towson I thought it was obvious he should have been on the bench. I guess the real test is where it goes from here. If he keeps getting 15-20 minutes a game then I'll be in line with your comments after game 1, no doubt.

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by DoctorJ » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:21 pm

I hear what people are saying and I feel and share the same frustration.

However, I don't want to blame BM for TJ, RJ and others putting up goose eggs in shooting categories.

The only difference in what we saw last night, compared to CCSU, was a tougher opponent. We were not any better or worse. We played at the same level against a more-organized and talented team.

Frank is letting them earn their minutes and, so far, nobody is earning the bigger share they should be aiming for. It will happen. He will shorten the rotation. He just didn't put a stamp of approval on anyone because they were not earning it. That's why we see TJ and Fernandes riding the pine at times when we would prefer them being in there. Frank is about accountability and nobody is showing him what he expects, so he is making a statement. That's just my opinion.

Diggins is looking more comfortable out there. RJ is playing his ass off but making mistakes. Sure looks like Frank loves his talent and wants to give him time to work on things in OOC, so he can develop and play a key role in conference. DD continues to look pretty solid and I'm loving seeing him improve.

That said, having both freshmen guards out there at the same time so early in the season makes me a little nervous but it will likely pay off in the long run.

Colorado has two games before we face them. Hope we really focus on them and scout them thoroughly. I'll be tuning in to them to get a feel for what we will be up against.
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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by inthescoop » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:23 pm

He’s only going to be here for 1 season - let it be about Brandon Martin, he’s not even that bad. There’s a bigger picture here, a happy Frank.

My biggest concern is our 2023 recruiting class but that’s a different story.

I just hope that we won’t leave this ride disappointed.

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by CapeCodBruiser » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:35 pm

First on this Veterans Day while I was walking on campus last night I was thinking back to when I was a UMass junior 40 years ago in 1982. Now lets go back 40 more years to 1942. Those UMass students going to a game at The Cage had to be worrying about being sent to the Pacific or Europe to fight the Axis Powers scourge in WWII. How lucky are our generations to have to just worry about keg parties and the quality of UMass Basketball thanks to those brave Vets!!! Thanks!

Some observations I had at the Mullins Center. There were lots of students in the J-K-L sections and not behind the basket. Students kept coming in during the game and the crowd filled in pretty good as opposed to what it was at tip off. One thing I didnt like that Matt McCall did was taking out a group that was clicking on the court for wholesale substitutions. (BTW I wonder if Matt is watching these games from his mansion in Florida) Cross was on a heater last night in the first half and got taken out. True he did start shooting from Steph Curry territory but the balloon deflated when he left the game to get on the Peleton bike behind the bench. Dont mess with momentum when a guy has a hot hand!!! The guy from Towson Timberlake was like a young John Stockton. We didnt have an answer for him. We need to get a lockdown guy to take guys like this out of their games. Like when the Lakers put Michael Cooper on a guy to smother him offensively.

Have a good weekend. Better days ahead. Its going to be a great season....Never Give Up! Go UMass!

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by eldonabe » Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:52 pm

DoctorJ wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:21 pm I hear what people are saying and I feel and share the same frustration.

However, I don't want to blame BM for TJ, RJ and others putting up goose eggs in shooting categories.

The only difference in what we saw last night, compared to CCSU, was a tougher opponent. We were not any better or worse. We played at the same level against a more-organized and talented team.

Frank is letting them earn their minutes and, so far, nobody is earning the bigger share they should be aiming for. It will happen. He will shorten the rotation. He just didn't put a stamp of approval on anyone because they were not earning it. That's why we see TJ and Fernandes riding the pine at times when we would prefer them being in there. Frank is about accountability and nobody is showing him what he expects, so he is making a statement. That's just my opinion.

Diggins is looking more comfortable out there. RJ is playing his ass off but making mistakes. Sure looks like Frank loves his talent and wants to give him time to work on things in OOC, so he can develop and play a key role in conference. DD continues to look pretty solid and I'm loving seeing him improve.

That said, having both freshmen guards out there at the same time so early in the season makes me a little nervous but it will likely pay off in the long run.

Colorado has two games before we face them. Hope we really focus on them and scout them thoroughly. I'll be tuning in to them to get a feel for what we will be up against.

This is a process that will not be instant. If they string together a 20 win season under the circumstances that would ne national coach of the year stuff. This is a classic building situation. While we all agree they should look better than the last 3 years, they just aren't going from 15 to 22 wins. If you are being honest with yourself (and realistic) 17-19 would be a pretty good improvement this year and if he can keep the core of a season like that in tact for next year 20+ wins should be expected.

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by Floyd » Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:10 pm

Was really a little disappointed in the crowd. Thought a good team like Towson would bring in more people. There were actually quite a few students there, just scattered around.

Can't wait for Gapare to get in the mix. His size and athleticism should be a tough matchup. I can see those baseline lobs ala Will Herndon firing up the Bill
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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by gr8won » Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:29 pm

Students are more interested in diversity equity and inclusion and being part of some pseudo victim group. If school was smart they’d have purple hair night.

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by LS71 » Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:44 pm

Best quote I’ve read in a long time:
Frank Martin wrote:Winning teams don’t overwhelm you with talent, they punish you for your mistakes.
https://www.gazettenet.com/UMass-basket ... r-48775232
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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by Juice Stand » Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:42 am

^ Absolutely. I just commented in the NIL Collective thread about the importance of coaching vs talent. Obviously you want the best of both, but given a choice between the two, I'd rather have good coaching. Over the years, we've seen that talent gets you to a certain point, but it's the coach that puts it all together, and Towson has a good one. If they had gone to the tournament last year, he probably would have been hired by a bigger school, but they just missed out, and he's back.

Those guys have been together for a while playing for the same coach, and there's a lot of chemistry and cohesion there. When the "more talented" group comes out flat, or makes some mistakes, they'll make you pay. Our guys are not going to find that chemistry any time soon, and we need to have some patience with this group. November and December could have some more ugly road bumps, but I'm confident that we will be very dangerous in A10 play.

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by uz2b-len » Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:01 pm

gr8won wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:29 pm Students are more interested in diversity equity and inclusion and being part of some pseudo victim group. If school was smart they’d have purple hair night.
Personally, I am also more interested in diversity equity and inclusion than basketball. Being a victim has nothing to do with it.
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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by RagingCager » Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:24 pm

I was a little surprised at the way the game turned out… certainly impressed with Timberlake and Towson, and disappointed in the way we played and paled in comparison at times, but to be fair, we shouldn’t expect our guys to attain that level of cohesion and team chemistry at this stage of the young season …. Hopefully this will bode well in getting the players attention as to how much work needs to be done. It’s perfectly understandable to see some of the new guys struggle a bit, especially the freshmen. The one area I hope Coach Martin will impact a difference is to instill, in a player like Weeks, a heightened sense of urgency and effort in pursuing an overall impact on the game, as opposed to just settling for 3s when the opportunity presents itself. Weeks seems to disappear at times when he’s not hitting or getting open 3s…. he waits in his spot, and then displays his shooting hand in the air for all to see while he admires the shot… if it goes in, all is well, if it doesn’t, he’s in no position for a rebound or a box out, not to mention a defensive race down court to stop the ensuing fast break. They list Timberlake at 6’4”…. he is certainly not that big, but when you watch him play, he displays a complete all around game on both ends…. this is what you hope to see in all your players.

We are going to need veteran leadership from Noah and TJ…. Hopefully as some of the new guys settle in and establish a threat on the court, it will open things up for their teammates, and there will come a point down the road where this team will start to gel against some of the better competition they will face. Anyone that wants playing time under Coach Martin, will have to earn it with a sense of urgency and all around effort on both ends of the floor…. Not just within their comfort zone or strengths, but in every way possible to impact the game in a positive manner…. otherwise, there will be other options available to attain the results necessary to compete with the better teams we will face. It’s still very early in this new era of UMass Basketball… let’s hope that the players that do buy in to the Frank Martin system will have what it takes to compete with the better teams in the A10 and beyond. 🏀

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by eldonabe » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:11 am

Floyd wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:10 pm Was really a little disappointed in the crowd. Thought a good team like Towson would bring in more people. There were actually quite a few students there, just scattered around.

Can't wait for Gapare to get in the mix. His size and athleticism should be a tough matchup. I can see those baseline lobs ala Will Herndon firing up the Bill
Floyd - the average Umass "fan" sees Towson on the schedule and they say "who"?

Plus - you know - no free tee shirts.

It will take a few wins and a winning record to get more bodies in the seats right now. People are naturally skeptical; we have had promises of better seasons previously which have landed flat.

Same as football, until you start putting up some W's - interest will be inconsistent (and probably low) at best.

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by capezona » Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:43 am

I think a lot of the difference between the teams in the game was that Towson's players have been together for several years and UMass players are almost all new to each other. All other things being equal, this makes a big difference.

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Re: Game 2, 2022-23: Towson (11/10)

Post by Umassochist » Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:59 am

With a few days to reflect on this game one of the positive takeaways I don't think we have discussed enough was being able to get 6 or 7 stops around the 4-7 minute mark of the 2nd half. Now, we couldn't buy a bucket so we didn't cut into the 12 point lead (I believe) at the time). The last few years the only way we could really get back into a game was trading 3's for 2's since our defense we less than ideal. I realize some of the "stops" were turnovers from Townson, but I'm taking this as a positive and hoping we can build on it.

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