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Worcester_To_Amherst
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by Worcester_To_Amherst » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:46 pm

InnervisionsUMASS wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:14 pm Is there anything legitimate connecting Archie to UMass? Seems like it's simply based on him being unemployed and having previously been in the A10, so sort of a Travis Ford situation.
I think we're the only ones talking about Miller to Umass so I don't think there's anything legitimate. For me, he's had success in the A10 and experienced failure at a bigger school. I think that could make him open to going back to an A10 level job if he thought he could win again and get back into the P5 ranks. And I think UMass is an opportunity for a good coach to make that happen.

fenway617
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by fenway617 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:00 pm

McKinney wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:04 pm
Perhaps UMass could get away with backloading the 5-year contract to the last 3 years. But even then how much per year could they scrap together? And the buyout language would have to be worded very carefully. Bamford would have to be one crafty guy to make UMass look compelling. But I don't think it's completely off the table. I think he's at least worth a call.
I am guessing they view contracts in terms of AAV (Average Annual Value) so even if it is heavily backloaded years the first few years would count the same in terms of AAV as the last few years for the sake of any buyout a coach received from a prior position. Unless it is incentive laden with very reachable triggers the last few years which could open a can of legal worms.

Also, not sure if this has been posted but a list of coached they say, are on the hot seat, the warm seat, and more.. Includes McCall and a bevy other other coaches that have at the very least name recognition should some of them become available.

https://www.coachesdatabase.com/hot-seat-report/
Last edited by fenway617 on Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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McKinney
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by McKinney » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:38 pm

I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. I don't know how these things shake out. They may measure on AAV.

As far as I know, the only obligation Miller has is to make a reasonable and diligent effort towards obtaining employment in a "comparable employment position" defined by occupation as a coach, media, AD, etc. It does not specifically say compensation must be comparable. Frankly, it would be difficult finding a position with comparable compensation even in those occupations. But "reasonable" and "comparable" are certainly open to interpretation.

A few speculative comments:
  • It's been said that DK's contract at LIU paid him next to nothing for the term of his buyout from UMass. Idk if that happened at LIU or not. But if it did, I'd bet it happens elsewhere with some frequency. Maybe to varying degrees of abuse.
  • Wasn't it rumored that MM's extension and raise in 2018 were planned from the start? That he officially accepted a lower value initial contract so that UMass could pay off DK. Knowing that unofficially they'd give him a larger contract after his first season? UMass could do the same thing with Miller to maximize the IU buyout, then after year 3 give him a new contract.
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fenway617
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by fenway617 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:04 pm

If I recall correctly and I may be missing some of the details but LIU was in financial hardship and had a pretty good coach before DK but his contract was up and they had no money to retain him so he was let go. About that same time DK became available so LIU and DK agreed to a very low contact because UMass was still paying him and LIU could offer next to nothing and the offset kept his salary the same for the next few years. This allowed DK to stay in the coaching ranks as a HC and allowed LIU to get a coach with name recognition. It was a win/win for both.
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vanmeter
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by vanmeter » Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:31 pm

If the money could be worked out I think Archie Miller would be a home run hire. Had outstanding success at Dayton and, while he struggled at Indiana it was really his last year that did him in. He would have made the NCAA tournament in 2019/20 season but basketball got shut down. He seems an amiable coach who does not seem to have any drama to his programs and seems to run a clean program. We could look at him in a way like Travis Ford success in A10 - less success in power 5 and then come back to A10 and put things together. If it could be worked out I think it would be a home run. Would really rejuvenate and fan base that really needs it.

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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by DoctorJ » Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:03 am

TheChamp wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:10 pm You know things are bad for the program when theres a bunch of posters calling for us to rehire Bruiser Flint. Not a lot of bright posters here at UMass Hoops.

Y'all are out of your damn minds. There is no chance. He's gotten fired from every HC job he's had and NEVER went to the NCAA Tournament in 20 years as HC other than his first two when he had Cal holdovers the first two years. Followed that with 18 consecutive years, no tournament. NO thanks.
Actually, Bruiser took UMass to the NCAAs twice. He also has 6 NIT appearances (one with UMass).

Head coaching record
Overall 331–289

Accomplishments and honors
Championships

CAA regular season (2012)
Awards
4× CAA Coach of the Year (2002, 2004, 2009, 2012)
4× NABC District Coach of the Year (1998, 2007, 2009, 2012)

I'm not saying we should go for him, but he'd be better than McCall.
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bunkerhill87
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by bunkerhill87 » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:15 am

Lots of names presented here. Although i like Bruiser he is not the answer. Im intrigued by Miller but I think the UMass job is not appealing especially to the more notable candidates. Its gonna be such a tricky decision to get the right fit. I think its easy to get the alumni on board but how do they spark the student fan base? If it wins that will take time. The whole Basketball culture needs a reset. As mentioned by many need to get the students courtside and not in an end zone 20 feet from the basket. So sad to see 900 people watching the games lately. So depressing. Need a team that will be in the game start to finish. I support the team no matter what the record is . Its been so discouraging to see Umass basketball spiral downward to the bottom. Again im hoping for a huge "win" on the next coach. the hard part is having the patience to go through this again to be even remotely relevant in the A10. I would love to see this team go on a run and do well. There are some character guys on this team that deserve the support of the fans no matter what. So lets hope when its time the "committee" does an exceptional job and brings in the guy that wants to be here and has the skills and motivation to bring in solid character players and mold them into a sound team. Wins will come

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InnervisionsUMASS
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:36 am

DoctorJ wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:03 am
TheChamp wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:10 pm You know things are bad for the program when theres a bunch of posters calling for us to rehire Bruiser Flint. Not a lot of bright posters here at UMass Hoops.

Y'all are out of your damn minds. There is no chance. He's gotten fired from every HC job he's had and NEVER went to the NCAA Tournament in 20 years as HC other than his first two when he had Cal holdovers the first two years. Followed that with 18 consecutive years, no tournament. NO thanks.
Actually, Bruiser took UMass to the NCAAs twice. He also has 6 NIT appearances (one with UMass).


To be fair, his post does mention the 2 NCAA tournament appearances.
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DoctorJ
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by DoctorJ » Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:37 am

Yes, ty IV.
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NilesGold
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by NilesGold » Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:25 am

Worcester_To_Amherst wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:46 pm
InnervisionsUMASS wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:14 pm Is there anything legitimate connecting Archie to UMass? Seems like it's simply based on him being unemployed and having previously been in the A10, so sort of a Travis Ford situation.
I think we're the only ones talking about Miller to Umass so I don't think there's anything legitimate. For me, he's had success in the A10 and experienced failure at a bigger school. I think that could make him open to going back to an A10 level job if he thought he could win again and get back into the P5 ranks. And I think UMass is an opportunity for a good coach to make that happen.
Miller's situation is comparable to Travis Ford and even Anthony Grant. Both had A10 jobs, were fired from P5 jobs and then came back to the A10. If UMass can make an appealing $ offer that gives him a good salary after his IU contract is over, it could be a great match.

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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by Cahoonaville » Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:19 pm

McKinney wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:38 pm I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. I don't know how these things shake out. They may measure on AAV.

As far as I know, the only obligation Miller has is to make a reasonable and diligent effort towards obtaining employment in a "comparable employment position" defined by occupation as a coach, media, AD, etc. It does not specifically say compensation must be comparable. Frankly, it would be difficult finding a position with comparable compensation even in those occupations. But "reasonable" and "comparable" are certainly open to interpretation.

A few speculative comments:
  • It's been said that DK's contract at LIU paid him next to nothing for the term of his buyout from UMass. Idk if that happened at LIU or not. But if it did, I'd bet it happens elsewhere with some frequency. Maybe to varying degrees of abuse.
  • Wasn't it rumored that MM's extension and raise in 2018 were planned from the start? That he officially accepted a lower value initial contract so that UMass could pay off DK. Knowing that unofficially they'd give him a larger contract after his first season? UMass could do the same thing with Miller to maximize the IU buyout, then after year 3 give him a new contract.

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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by wmmmfan » Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:53 am

Archie Miller had Bruiser and Ed Shilling on his staff at Indiana, so I’m guessing there is a Cal connection. If anyone could sell AM on coming to UMass it is our biggest cheerleader. I’m sure he’d also use his influence to help raise some money for the new coach like the football boosters did for DB.
It’s time to give the fans what they deserve, a competent bball coach and competitive program.
Our AD loves to use the “flagship” moniker well time to act like it.

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Scott O
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by Scott O » Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:50 pm

Cahoonaville wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:19 pm
the New York Jets cocktail? Drink two of them and you’ll forget what your Namath.
:lol:
Retarded artistically. Idiotic in other respects.

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Scott O
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by Scott O » Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:55 pm

May I suggest the honorable, Bob Knight. All time record of 902–371 (.709). 3 NCAA championships. And he's probably a little too old to knock people around too much anymore, so he would be a kinder, gentler Bobby Knight.
Retarded artistically. Idiotic in other respects.

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InnervisionsUMASS
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Re: Replacements for McCall

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:04 pm

^

I miss the days of UMass fans pining for, and railing against, Bobby Knight. Those were fun.
Stop waiting for UMass to do something big and help UMass do something big. - Shades

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