Is MM a winner?

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PreecherJenkins
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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by PreecherJenkins » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:33 pm

LS71 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:02 pm
KahunaK wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:36 pm
LS71 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:12 pm ^ Exactly!

https://www.masslive.com/umass/2021/04/ ... nship.html

Carvel’s answer to Matt’s question about his vision.

So if MM brings in quality kids who graduate on time with solid GPAs, work hard every game, represent the program and the university in a positive way in which the fan base can take pride in- will that be enough? Methinks not for the people on this board.

Carvel had NHL, and previous head coach experience at one of only 60 hockey schools and could recruit in a hotbed of hockey high schools (Massachusetts though UMASS only has a few players from there--- and also can recruit in that country just north of here). Also plays in one of the top conferences in the sport and has some of the best facilities in the country. To his credit, he wanted to get rid of the a*******s and bring in good guys. Is that just what happened with the ball program?-Perhaps. This coming year will be the first real test for MM though losing Tre and Gray are big hits
The point is....build the program and the wins will come.
And what is Matthew Wayne McCall building? This is my issues, what is the plan what is the direction. What is something our coaches excel at? With Derek you could point to him being a great recruiter and I think the guys got better over the time they spent in Amherst. Are we skill development experts? Don’t think so!

If Matthew Wayne McCall reads this pls describe the vision. Maybe his wife reads it (we know someone in the lappas family used to post).
"You are what your record says you are" Coach Bill P.

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NilesGold
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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by NilesGold » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:47 pm

PreecherJenkins wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:33 pm And what is Matthew Wayne McCall building? This is my issues, what is the plan what is the direction. What is something our coaches excel at? With Derek you could point to him being a great recruiter and I think the guys got better over the time they spent in Amherst. Are we skill development experts? Don’t think so!

If Matthew Wayne McCall reads this pls describe the vision. Maybe his wife reads it (we know someone in the lappas family used to post).
Good thing you included his middle name, otherwise I might think you were referring to a different Matt McCall.

PreecherJenkins
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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by PreecherJenkins » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:54 pm

NilesGold wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:47 pm
PreecherJenkins wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:33 pm And what is Matthew Wayne McCall building? This is my issues, what is the plan what is the direction. What is something our coaches excel at? With Derek you could point to him being a great recruiter and I think the guys got better over the time they spent in Amherst. Are we skill development experts? Don’t think so!

If Matthew Wayne McCall reads this pls describe the vision. Maybe his wife reads it (we know someone in the lappas family used to post).
Good thing you included his middle name, otherwise I might think you were referring to a different Matt McCall.
No problem. Glad to help you out.
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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:05 pm

^ I think the middle name thing is a bit like when right wingers would call Obama “Barrack Hussein Obama” as a way to try to make him the other. Maybe listing “Wayne” is a similarly weird attempt to dismiss someone who is not one of “us.” I mean, who can forget all those Derek Wolfgang Kellogg references here when he was struggling? But, hey, weird shit happens here, so probably nothing.

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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by vanmeter » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:15 pm

Greg Carvel’s middle name is Wolfgang

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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by vanmeter » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:41 pm

KahunaK
Your post is wrong on many counts
1) trying to diminish what Greg Carvel has done is shameful. Taking over a program that was one of, if not the worst, program in college hockey and in 3 years making the national championship game and in 5 years winning a national championship is a tremendous accomplishment period.
2) Thinking that running a clean program and graduating players is enough - except for some on this board - is foolish. I’m pretty sure that this would not only not satisfy those on this board but the athletic department as well.

No one expects that we will have an NCAA championship in basketball, but ‘making’ the tournament would be an not so demanding expectation.

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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by KahunaK » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:53 pm

vanmeter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:41 pm KahunaK
Your post is wrong on many counts
1) trying to diminish what Greg Carvel has done is shameful. Taking over a program that was one of, if not the worst, program in college hockey and in 3 years making the national championship game and in 5 years winning a national championship is a tremendous accomplishment period.
2) Thinking that running a clean program and graduating players is enough - except for some on this board - is foolish. I’m pretty sure that this would not only not satisfy those on this board but the athletic department as well.

No one expects that we will have an NCAA championship in basketball, but ‘making’ the tournament would be a not so demanding expectation.
I could be wrong on many things as we all could be. I would never diminish what Coach Carvel has accomplished-it is extraordinary. UMASS hockey has always been seen as a sleeping giant just waiting for the right person to show up....and he did. Congrats to him and his team.

What I was trying to say is that you can't compare apples to oranges. MM walked into a disastrous situation where another coach just said screw it and left on the day he was to be announced!!!! Think about that. How many schools have EVER had that happen to them??? Obviously, something was not right in Amherst for that to happen. MM had a mess to clean up.

The ability to attract top players to UMASS is easier for the hockey program for the reasons stated. UMASS bball is a middling program (out of 350 programs) in a second-tier conference. UMASS hockey is in Hockey East- a premier conference.

As for point two- if all those good things happen but UMASS remains at .500, this board would be looking for a new coach-its in the DNA of the posters here. Unfortunately many will say Coach Cal did it-why can't someone else do it? Cal is one of the best coaches of his generation- UMASS struck lightning in a bottle. MM is not Cal and I dare say UMASS may never get another Cal. The expectations of what UMASS can accomplish are way too high in the short term. What UMASS needs is some consistency-it has been a jumble since MM arrived. If Tre and Gray stayed for next year I think UMASS would have been solid. Unfortunately, the transfer portal and a certain assistant coach have set them back. Perhaps MM can turn it around or maybe not. Time will tell. But comparing the hockey program to the bball program or MM to Carvel/Cal just is not a reasonable way to judge MM.

As far as the not-so-demanding expectation of making the tournament- since 1998 (24 years) UMASS has had 5 coaches and 1 NCAA appearance. In that appearance, UMASS got blown out in the first round by an 11 seed. Not sure where the confidence in going to the NCAA comes from but it is not from recent past experience.

Bottom line is that MM entered a very difficult situation which has persisted. The Tre/TB fiasco is his responsibility and should be held accountable for it. But everyone was on board when they started to win- forget about a program that you can be proud of - just win baby.

The other two things are Swamy will fire Bamford if he tries to fire MM-UMASS doesn't have the money. Second- what great coach will want to walk into Amherst. You will get exactly what MM is- a coach from a lower/bottom tier school that is hoping to make the next step. Then UMASS will go through exactly what it has been experiencing for the past 24 years. If UMASS supports MM AND he succeeds and turns it around then the reputation of UMASS will be enhanced as a good bball school. If he got fired UMASS will be seen as a tainted place. I hope MM turns it around.

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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by KahunaK » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:58 pm

PreecherJenkins wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:33 pm With Derek you could point to him being a great recruiter
Not too sure about that. With Chaz- two NIT and one NCAA appearance. Without Chaz- nada.

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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:14 pm

vanmeter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:15 pm Greg Carvel’s middle name is Wolfgang
Ok. Great. I’ve apparently missed all the references to Greg Wolfgang Carvel as well.

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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by harbo » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:27 pm

Is Tory Verdi a winner?

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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by SignMan » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:23 pm

JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:14 pm
vanmeter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:15 pm Greg Carvel’s middle name is Wolfgang
Ok. Great. I’ve apparently missed all the references to Greg Wolfgang Carvel as well.
A virtual Press Conference will be held tomorrow morning, at which it will be announced that Wolfgang Puck is now the Official Pizza of the National Championship UMass Hockey Team.
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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by Sheck » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:32 pm

KahunaK wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:53 pm But everyone was on board when they started to win- forget about a program that you can be proud of - just win baby.
If someone has to bang trash cans at the Mullins next season I'd be ok with that if it results in an NCAA berth.
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PreecherJenkins
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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by PreecherJenkins » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:34 am

KahunaK wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:58 pm
PreecherJenkins wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:33 pm With Derek you could point to him being a great recruiter
Not too sure about that. With Chaz- two NIT and one NCAA appearance. Without Chaz- nada.
Umm it wasn’t just Chaz, he was def the engine but you had tv, put, maxie, trey, samp, cady and Jesse. All guys better than anyone mwm has brought in with the exception of tre.
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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by eldonabe » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:07 am

PreecherJenkins wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:34 am
KahunaK wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:58 pm
PreecherJenkins wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:33 pm With Derek you could point to him being a great recruiter
Not too sure about that. With Chaz- two NIT and one NCAA appearance. Without Chaz- nada.
Umm it wasn’t just Chaz, he was def the engine but you had tv, put, maxie, trey, samp, cady and Jesse. All guys better than anyone mwm has brought in with the exception of tre.

Dear Preecher Phillip Jenkins.......

Puh-lease..... Yes, that was a solid team (DK's). Imagine the possibilities with a coach who spent a little less time on hair gel and a little more time on some game planning.

You can argue about talent all day long - if they cannot win games, what difference does it make. MM is not winning enough games. Easy to see and wrap your head around. I get it, you want to see success on the court. No argument here, MM is not getting that done yet.

In relative terms (and only IMO) McCall has done much better with what he has had to work with than what DK did with his "riches of talent"...... obviously debatable, but that is how I see it. I would prefer to see a sub-par talent team meeting or exceeding expectations all day long, than agonizing (in fandom terms) over a team which should be much better than it is performing. That team you reference above played very pedestrian basketball after that awesome start out of the gate. Once the book was written on them, it was game over.

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Re: Is MM a winner?

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:26 am

eldonabe wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:07 am That team you reference above....


And that team he references is the only UMass Basketball team to make the NCAA Tournament since James Bruiser Flint. Show some fucking respect and get over your weird hatred obsession with Derek Wolfgang Kellogg. Seek help, immediately... this is getting very worrisome.
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