State of the program

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UMassHoops
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Re: State of the program

Post by UMassHoops » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:51 pm

TheOFFSeason wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:57 pm

All 3 leaving are for different reasons
It would seem kind of odd if they were all leaving for the same reason...

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uz2b-len
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Re: State of the program

Post by uz2b-len » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:45 pm

Unless the reason was "You're fired!"
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Re: State of the program

Post by McKinney » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:11 pm

Jackson96 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:10 pm
* Having wholesale changes sucks because it means things aren't going well. It's better to try though than to keep the status quo.
I'm partial to controlled experiments; manipulating one variable at a time. But most head coaches are only given four or fewer seasons to prove themselves. There are far more than four variables that could spell success or failure for a culture/program. So if that's what needs to happen, let's give it a shot. Blow up the staff.

I do think it's ironic that year one was tough because the team was blown up in year zero, yet seemingly the solution to the struggles in year two are to blow up the team for year three.
Ryan McKinney - Class of 2019 - @mckinney2019

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Re: State of the program

Post by NilesGold » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:56 am

^ Presumably McCall has a lot more time and experience at UMass this time around to select his staff, and players.

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Re: State of the program

Post by Roadtrip » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:37 am

He better bring in the right kids; some will have to produce next season.

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Re: State of the program

Post by UMassfan_19 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:19 am

UMassHoops wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:28 am
It's certainly not a great reflection on MM's judgement if in fact he chooses to fire all of his assistants. I could see 1 maybe 2 but if you are cleaning house completely you are either being told to do it, or you really screwed up the first time around. It's a pattern I've seen with his recruiting also where MM says he is after high motor/high buy-in kids and yet questions the teams effort and buy-in all season long.

I'm not anti-MM, and have clearly stated on the board that I believe he should get a full 3rd year before there is any thought of making a change. (nicer way of saying firing). Hopefully he is coming up the learning curve rapidly this summer, he seems to recognize the importance of better decisions on staff and recruiting being made. He's made a few brilliant finds like Carl Pierre already. I like his energy, I think his intentions are good -- but that's not good enough for what should be a top 50 consistently NCAA bound program.

Recognizing changes need to be made is smart, but it is concerning as well that such drastic changes are being considered heading into year 3. The next batch of recruits will make or break MM's career here, and I'm rooting for him because otherwise we are likely looking at another tear down, rebuild and 3 or more years before we contend again.

Edit: A lot of the mistakes can be written off to being thrown into a program in chaos as PK slithered back to Winston, so there is a case to be made that rushed assistant decisions, rushed recruiting decisions will be corrected this offseason, which is why any talk of a change at the top is premature.
He has rarely questioned the buy in and motor of the guys he has recurited though. Only one I can really remember being questioned is Sy who none of us can deny made great strides at the end of the season so clearly he got through to him

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LS71
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Re: State of the program

Post by LS71 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:54 am

LS71 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:54 am
UMassfan_19 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:19 am

He has rarely questioned the buy in and motor of the guys he has recurited though. Only one I can really remember being questioned is Sy who none of us can deny made great strides at the end of the season so clearly he got through to him
Maybe I missed something, but how do you know that?
Last edited by LS71 on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: State of the program

Post by minutefanjsf » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:36 am

LS71 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:54 am
UMassfan_19 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:19 am
UMassHoops wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:28 am
It's certainly not a great reflection on MM's judgement if in fact he chooses to fire all of his assistants. I could see 1 maybe 2 but if you are cleaning house completely you are either being told to do it, or you really screwed up the first time around. It's a pattern I've seen with his recruiting also where MM says he is after high motor/high buy-in kids and yet questions the teams effort and buy-in all season long.

I'm not anti-MM, and have clearly stated on the board that I believe he should get a full 3rd year before there is any thought of making a change. (nicer way of saying firing). Hopefully he is coming up the learning curve rapidly this summer, he seems to recognize the importance of better decisions on staff and recruiting being made. He's made a few brilliant finds like Carl Pierre already. I like his energy, I think his intentions are good -- but that's not good enough for what should be a top 50 consistently NCAA bound program.

Recognizing changes need to be made is smart, but it is concerning as well that such drastic changes are being considered heading into year 3. The next batch of recruits will make or break MM's career here, and I'm rooting for him because otherwise we are likely looking at another tear down, rebuild and 3 or more years before we contend again.

Edit: A lot of the mistakes can be written off to being thrown into a program in chaos as PK slithered back to Winston, so there is a case to be made that rushed assistant decisions, rushed recruiting decisions will be corrected this offseason, which is why any talk of a change at the top is premature.
He has rarely questioned the buy in and motor of the guys he has recurited though. Only one I can really remember being questioned is Sy who none of us can deny made great strides at the end of the season so clearly he got through to him
Maybe I missed something, but how do you know that?
He hasn’t publicly admonished guys he recruited, it if any of the transfers leave that would be evidence that he was not able to get through to some of the guys he brought here. Hayward and Cobb seem on the wrong side of this discussion.

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Re: State of the program

Post by TheOFFSeason » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:52 am

Roadtrip wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:37 am
He better bring in the right kids; some will have to produce next season.
St Bonaventure is an example of 3 key freshmen playing a lot...top 4 finish in league and finals of the tournament.
Mitchell is better than any of those 3, but their key is Lofton is a very good point guard, the most important position. Get a good pg late and I will expect UMASS to get the double bye next year.

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Re: State of the program

Post by 69MG » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:57 am

TheOFFSeason wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:52 am
Roadtrip wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:37 am
He better bring in the right kids; some will have to produce next season.
St Bonaventure is an example of 3 key freshmen playing a lot...top 4 finish in league and finals of the tournament.
Mitchell is better than any of those 3, but their key is Lofton is a very good point guard, the most important position. Get a good pg late and I will expect UMASS to get the double bye next year.
Are there any unsigned frosh out there who are good enough? If not, do you think MM would take a shot at a grad transfer to fill that role for a year? There are already almost 200 transfers announced and quite a few are grad transfers. I haven't looked closely enough at them to know if any would work here.

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Re: State of the program

Post by LS71 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:05 pm

^^^ Not trying to argue with you. but that's conjecture on your part, not fact.

Just because he hasn't admonished them publicly doesn't mean he hasn't done so privately. Perhaps those who leave are do so as a result of those private conversations. Unless you/me/anyone-here was there, we can't say for sure.
Last edited by LS71 on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: State of the program

Post by Juice Stand » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:18 pm

69MG wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:57 am
There are already almost 200 transfers announced and quite a few are grad transfers. I haven't looked closely enough at them to know if any would work here.
Wow, 200 already. Maybe that's not a lot considering how many teams there are in Div 1, but it sure sounds like a lot. Pip is the only UMass player I know of that has officially announced his decision. I wonder how long it will be before we hear from others.

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Re: State of the program

Post by Worcester_To_Amherst » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:21 pm

69MG wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:57 am
TheOFFSeason wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:52 am
Roadtrip wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:37 am
He better bring in the right kids; some will have to produce next season.
St Bonaventure is an example of 3 key freshmen playing a lot...top 4 finish in league and finals of the tournament.
Mitchell is better than any of those 3, but their key is Lofton is a very good point guard, the most important position. Get a good pg late and I will expect UMASS to get the double bye next year.
Are there any unsigned frosh out there who are good enough? If not, do you think MM would take a shot at a grad transfer to fill that role for a year? There are already almost 200 transfers announced and quite a few are grad transfers. I haven't looked closely enough at them to know if any would work here.
We absolutely need another point guard going into next season, and I think a grad transfer would be preferable unless there is a real stud recruit out there waiting for us (unlikely). I love Tre's potential, namely his speed, ball control, and ability to get to spots on the floor with the ball in his hands. He needs to vastly improve on his decision making with the ball in his hands. I think he could become a real good player here, but I wouldn't bank on him making enough progress this off season to feel comfortable giving him the keys to the car. Ideally we would bring in a steady grad transfer pg.
He doesn't have to be a star, just someone to take care of the ball and get the rest of the team involved.

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Re: State of the program

Post by TheOFFSeason » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:20 pm

69MG wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:57 am
TheOFFSeason wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:52 am
Roadtrip wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:37 am
He better bring in the right kids; some will have to produce next season.
St Bonaventure is an example of 3 key freshmen playing a lot...top 4 finish in league and finals of the tournament.
Mitchell is better than any of those 3, but their key is Lofton is a very good point guard, the most important position. Get a good pg late and I will expect UMASS to get the double bye next year.
Are there any unsigned frosh out there who are good enough? If not, do you think MM would take a shot at a grad transfer to fill that role for a year? There are already almost 200 transfers announced and quite a few are grad transfers. I haven't looked closely enough at them to know if any would work here.
Here’s the thing with a pg, we need one that can take care of the ball, communicate/lead on the court, get the team into offense and be able to guard his position decently (his first year). We don’t need to find a scorer...those guys get ranked higher or scooped up faster nowadays. I believe they can get a pg late.

TheOFFSeason
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Re: State of the program

Post by TheOFFSeason » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:28 pm

TheOFFSeason wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:20 pm
69MG wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:57 am
TheOFFSeason wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:52 am


St Bonaventure is an example of 3 key freshmen playing a lot...top 4 finish in league and finals of the tournament.
Mitchell is better than any of those 3, but their key is Lofton is a very good point guard, the most important position. Get a good pg late and I will expect UMASS to get the double bye next year.
Are there any unsigned frosh out there who are good enough? If not, do you think MM would take a shot at a grad transfer to fill that role for a year? There are already almost 200 transfers announced and quite a few are grad transfers. I haven't looked closely enough at them to know if any would work here.
Here’s the thing with a pg, we need one that can take care of the ball, communicate/lead on the court, get the team into offense and be able to guard his position decently (his first year). We don’t need to find a scorer...those guys get ranked higher or scooped up faster nowadays. I believe they can get a pg late.
Also, I’ve talked to staff from the beginning of last year and again this year, about the lack of communication this team has on the court on both offense and defense. To most casual hoop followers this doesn’t seem important or it’s not something noticeable but there aren’t any good teams that don’t have it and if you see a team that looks good on paper but loses more games than you think they should you can bet they are week in this area.
Buggs and Mitchell stood out to me as very good at this when I saw them. This is what we need in out pg of the future.

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