State of the Progam

Ringing the Bell on a new era of UM Football.
eldonabe
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by eldonabe » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:41 am

Maz you are reminding me of a old poster - I think early Kellogg years who was ridiculously over the top in their predictions / enthusiasm / and bragging. I am not even sure if it was from this site, but you are definitely like that person.... He claimed David Gibbs was the next coming of Dr J... and he had "first hand" knowledge of this and many other things Umass.... he was, in fact, full of shit and Gibbs was a bust here; and the rest of his insider information turned out to be bull shit too.

The guy had posting name that led you to believe it was Jeff Goodman... he was a fucking crack-pot - just like you are coming off to be. You are not a reincarnation of that person are you? I need to find that - even if it wasn't on this site.... you and this guy are one in the same.
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InnervisionsUMASS
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:57 am

^

Does going on this witch hunt mean you'll be posting less here? That would be splendid.
Stop waiting for UMass to do something big and help UMass do something big. - Shades

eldonabe
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by eldonabe » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:39 am

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:57 am
^

Does going on this witch hunt mean you'll be posting less here? That would be splendid.


Piss off "Mr Insider"....
In Matt McCall I trust!

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InnervisionsUMASS
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:46 pm

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:57 am
^

Does going on this witch hunt mean you'll be posting less here? That would be splendid.

Guess not. Oh well.
Stop waiting for UMass to do something big and help UMass do something big. - Shades

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Dickie Dunn
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by Dickie Dunn » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:58 pm

I know stevemaz personally, and have since we were both at UMass. I might not dispute that he's crazy :D but he is not someone else. FWIW.
I wrote this ... it's gotta be true.

eldonabe
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by eldonabe » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:32 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:58 pm
I know stevemaz personally, and have since we were both at UMass. I might not dispute that he's crazy :D but he is not someone else. FWIW.
Fair enough... carry on with your crazy prognostications.
In Matt McCall I trust!

ZooMass84
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by ZooMass84 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:13 pm

eldonabe wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:41 am
Maz you are reminding me of a old poster - I think early Kellogg years who was ridiculously over the top in their predictions / enthusiasm / and bragging. I am not even sure if it was from this site, but you are definitely like that person.... He claimed David Gibbs was the next coming of Dr J... and he had "first hand" knowledge of this and many other things Umass.... he was, in fact, full of shit and Gibbs was a bust here; and the rest of his insider information turned out to be bull shit too.

The guy had posting name that led you to believe it was Jeff Goodman... he was a fucking crack-pot - just like you are coming off to be. You are not a reincarnation of that person are you? I need to find that - even if it wasn't on this site.... you and this guy are one in the same.
Maz is nuts but a good kind of nuts.....UMass to the Big 10 and all the bowl talk is crazy!!!!

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by ZooMass84 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:17 pm

eldonabe wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:29 am
Steve81 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:09 am
Understand your point but will say the following.

Boston College has been very successful in the past, Doug Flute and the Orange Bowl and in the past few years.

Don't think we should do a whole sale shove under the bus for a CHANCE to be respectable 3 years out of every 10 years.
I do not care if i's a new east coast conference, the MAC, or CUSA but it is ridicules and a huge double standard to say how bad football is now that we moved up, being independent in recent years. Wtf type of recruits would basketball have being independent??

That said think it is worth watching CUSA and MAC to see how much their BB improves. Obviously a FB only option with UConn is possible but will cost some. The trend is the A10 is getting weaker, in 2014 with 6 bids and last few years half that number and still trending down.

The MAC BB is getting better but most years the A10 will be better. However the gap between the quality is more in perception and there it has helped with our NCAA bids.

I am, not saying scrap football Steve.... that said, we have a real-life example 45 minutes south of us as to what we are up against. And they had a pretty goddamn good basketball brand that has suffered greatly at the expense of the football dream and it may never recover. They threw a shit load of money at the football and P5 dream and they are now on the precipice of killing football altogether only 20 years after making the commitment. Umass has a much much steeper hill to climb that Uconn did given that basketball sucks, and football really sucks (and we did not make the initial capital investment).

To have expectations beyond one possible bowl eligible team every 8-10 years is a pipe dream at best. Conference affiliation is not a magic bullet in our case - see UConn.

We had lightning in a bottle once and Nascar Bob fucked that up in spades..... Catching lightning twice may be asking for too much at this point.
We're never going to scrap football. We have games scheduled out 10 years from now. Bottom line, it helps UMass be a national brand and we're up to 64th in the USNWR. It's just sad that its 8 years in now and we still suck. Really thought the second half of 2017 was special.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by econalum » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:21 pm

Football, and athletics period, has nothing to do with US news rankings. Nothing. check out their methodology.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-c ... e-rankings

And for weighting, here: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-c ... nd-weights

And, when major outlets like Espn refers to us as UMess, when we are rising in almost all other respects, FBS is simply a negative factor for the brand.
Feeling entitled is JUST a feeling...

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by stevemaz » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:29 am

Dickie Dunn wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:58 pm
I know stevemaz personally, and have since we were both at UMass. I might not dispute that he's crazy :D but he is not someone else. FWIW.
do you have me confused with the my distant cousin who played hockey at UMass. Im '90.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by eldonabe » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:22 am

ZooMass84 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:17 pm

We're never going to scrap football. We have games scheduled out 10 years from now. Bottom line, it helps UMass be a national brand and we're up to 64th in the USNWR. It's just sad that its 8 years in now and we still suck. Really thought the second half of 2017 was special.

We could schedule games out 100 years and that would not stop you from scrapping football if that is what you had to do.

If the school USNWR really meant that much / made a difference, then the Ivy League Schools would be decimating all of college sports.

It is a really simple but very hard to accomplish formula:

- Win games [consistently]
- Look cool doing it by having state of the art facilities
- Be on TV - A LOT - see point #1
- Have a great "name brand" rivalry (or two)
- Pay your coaches

Getting into a conference first doesn't get you those things now, you need those first to get into a conference at this point in the game.

There are many, many teams in P5 conferences who still suck and have sucked for a very long time. Even if Umass could have the "success" of the bottom of the P5 barrel, they still wont get in, because all they represent is another mouth to feed and bring an ROI that is negative for the conference.

That is the reality of this. The B1G, SEC, ACC could care less about our USNWR......
In Matt McCall I trust!

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jjmc85
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by jjmc85 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:26 am

econalum wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:21 pm
Football, and athletics period, has nothing to do with US news rankings. Nothing. check out their methodology.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-c ... e-rankings

And for weighting, here: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-c ... nd-weights

And, when major outlets like Espn refers to us as UMess, when we are rising in almost all other respects, FBS is simply a negative factor for the brand.
I think this is an oversimplification. Athletics helps in several ways that impact the rankings. Specifically in admissions, alumni engagement and retention. I know it’s a data point of exactly 1, but I turned down a full scholarship to UMass Boston to go to UMass. And the reason I did that is because I associated the Amherst campus as the better school because D1 athletics. He’ll, the only reason I applied or knew about the school was because of the 1996 basketball team.

Also, I was considering dropping out or transferring my first semester because I wasn’t happy. Then since I was bored and it was free I started going to football games. Slowly but surely I became a fan, to the point where I decided to stay. Also, I can’t be the only one who sometimes gives only a sport specific donation to the school.

I have 0 connection to my high school, a trivial amount with my grad school, and lots with UMass. For me, sports are a big part of that.

So if admission standards and alumni engagement are part of the rankings, and if athletics contributes positively to these metrics, it’s not right to say that they have nothing to do with these rankings.
UMass Football: 22-3 at home when I was a student.

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InnervisionsUMASS
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:48 am

jjmc85 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:26 am
econalum wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:21 pm
Football, and athletics period, has nothing to do with US news rankings. Nothing. check out their methodology.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-c ... e-rankings

And for weighting, here: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-c ... nd-weights

And, when major outlets like Espn refers to us as UMess, when we are rising in almost all other respects, FBS is simply a negative factor for the brand.
I think this is an oversimplification. Athletics helps in several ways that impact the rankings. Specifically in admissions, alumni engagement and retention. I know it’s a data point of exactly 1, but I turned down a full scholarship to UMass Boston to go to UMass. And the reason I did that is because I associated the Amherst campus as the better school because D1 athletics. He’ll, the only reason I applied or knew about the school was because of the 1996 basketball team.

Also, I was considering dropping out or transferring my first semester because I wasn’t happy. Then since I was bored and it was free I started going to football games. Slowly but surely I became a fan, to the point where I decided to stay. Also, I can’t be the only one who sometimes gives only a sport specific donation to the school.

I have 0 connection to my high school, a trivial amount with my grad school, and lots with UMass. For me, sports are a big part of that.

So if admission standards and alumni engagement are part of the rankings, and if athletics contributes positively to these metrics, it’s not right to say that they have nothing to do with these rankings.

Nope. econalum said that Athletics has nothing to do with those rankings. You're wrong. WRONG!
Stop waiting for UMass to do something big and help UMass do something big. - Shades

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MJatUM
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by MJatUM » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:08 am

jjmc85 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:26 am
So if admission standards and alumni engagement are part of the rankings, and if athletics contributes positively to these metrics, it’s not right to say that they have nothing to do with these rankings.
Good post. Well said.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by ZooMass84 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:33 am

eldonabe wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:22 am
ZooMass84 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:17 pm

We're never going to scrap football. We have games scheduled out 10 years from now. Bottom line, it helps UMass be a national brand and we're up to 64th in the USNWR. It's just sad that its 8 years in now and we still suck. Really thought the second half of 2017 was special.

We could schedule games out 100 years and that would not stop you from scrapping football if that is what you had to do.

If the school USNWR really meant that much / made a difference, then the Ivy League Schools would be decimating all of college sports.

It is a really simple but very hard to accomplish formula:

- Win games [consistently]
- Look cool doing it by having state of the art facilities
- Be on TV - A LOT - see point #1
- Have a great "name brand" rivalry (or two)
- Pay your coaches

Getting into a conference first doesn't get you those things now, you need those first to get into a conference at this point in the game.

There are many, many teams in P5 conferences who still suck and have sucked for a very long time. Even if Umass could have the "success" of the bottom of the P5 barrel, they still wont get in, because all they represent is another mouth to feed and bring an ROI that is negative for the conference.

That is the reality of this. The B1G, SEC, ACC could care less about our USNWR......
Can I address some issues:

Scheduling games: those are actual contracts and would have to bought out with actual money. You just can't say "we don't play football anymore, so we're all set now"

Yes, USNWR criteria does not specifically mention football or FBS or whatever, BUT, we had over 42,000 applications this year. Are you telling me that number would have happened if we were never on TV or Vegas lines and still 1AA playing URI and UNH? C'mon.......many schools are shutting down dorms etc. like Univ of Missouri.

Also, the Ivys at one time (yes, a million years ago) WERE the standard and the Alabamas and Clemsons of their day. I know, in 1936 it all changed and the powers that be kicked them out.

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