2020 Presidential Election

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InnervisionsUMASS
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:38 am

Early voting and mail-in voting is here to stay. They have 4 years to fix it so that we don't have to wait 5 days after election day to figure out the results. I like to think we have smart people in charge of these things, but I have my doubts.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Quann » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:22 am

^^^
Well then look forward to a whole lot of this post election mess in the future. Widespread mail in balloting is not very smart (IMHO) and this would have been a widely agreed upon statement from everybody prior to this election. Now it has somehow turned into a political statement to say this. Georgia is now doing a statewide hand recount of all ballots. Hopefully this is all settled by inauguration day :roll:

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Crank » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:56 am

Somehow Colorado has been using mail in voting since 2013 and hasn't run in to problems. The fact that some states (including Pennsylvania) wouldn't allow for the processing of mail in ballots until election day didn't help.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by e_parade » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:58 am

Quann wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:22 am ^^^
Well then look forward to a whole lot of this post election mess in the future. Widespread mail in balloting is not very smart (IMHO) and this would have been a widely agreed upon statement from everybody prior to this election. Now it has somehow turned into a political statement to say this. Georgia is now doing a statewide hand recount of all ballots. Hopefully this is all settled by inauguration day :roll:
Citation needed.

Multiple states have been using 100% mail in ballots for multiple elections by this point (both historically blue and red states included) - they do also allow for in person voting, but the vast majority do so through mail: Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Hawaii, and Utah. The issue didn't come in with the increase in mail in voting, it came in with state legislatures not allowing anything to happen with the ballots until election day. Notice that Florida, of all states, had no issues with reporting the vast majority of votes on election day despite having millions of mail in ballots. Why? They started processing ballots 22 days prior to the election. There was no backlog to get through. There was no controversy where people thought it all magically changed through "ballot drops" or "new ballots" when in reality it was just the ballots that arrived on time not being able to get counted quickly. PA tried to get it so mail in ballots could be processed prior to election day, but that was shot down for them.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:53 pm

Crank wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:56 am Somehow Colorado has been using mail in voting since 2013 and hasn't run in to problems. The fact that some states (including Pennsylvania) wouldn't allow for the processing of mail in ballots until election day didn't help.

This is exactly what they need to fix. It's not rocket science.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Quann » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:00 pm

e_parade wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:58 am
Quann wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:22 am ^^^
Well then look forward to a whole lot of this post election mess in the future. Widespread mail in balloting is not very smart (IMHO) and this would have been a widely agreed upon statement from everybody prior to this election. Now it has somehow turned into a political statement to say this. Georgia is now doing a statewide hand recount of all ballots. Hopefully this is all settled by inauguration day :roll:
Citation needed.

Multiple states have been using 100% mail in ballots for multiple elections by this point (both historically blue and red states included) - they do also allow for in person voting, but the vast majority do so through mail: Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Hawaii, and Utah. The issue didn't come in with the increase in mail in voting, it came in with state legislatures not allowing anything to happen with the ballots until election day. Notice that Florida, of all states, had no issues with reporting the vast majority of votes on election day despite having millions of mail in ballots. Why? They started processing ballots 22 days prior to the election. There was no backlog to get through. There was no controversy where people thought it all magically changed through "ballot drops" or "new ballots" when in reality it was just the ballots that arrived on time not being able to get counted quickly. PA tried to get it so mail in ballots could be processed prior to election day, but that was shot down for them.
So we went from 5 states using it in the past election to 50 states using it now, of course there were going to be issues. Say we’re back to normal in 2024 pandemic wise, are people really going to be too lazy to walk into a polling station to vote early or vote on Election Day? If they are do they really deserve to vote? My opinion is no. Why open up the opportunity for widespread corruption, it’s not a very easy thing to regulate compared to in person voting.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Crank » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:53 pm

Quann wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:00 pm
So we went from 5 states using it in the past election to 50 states using it now, of course there were going to be issues. Say we’re back to normal in 2024 pandemic wise, are people really going to be too lazy to walk into a polling station to vote early or vote on Election Day? If they are do they really deserve to vote? My opinion is no. Why open up the opportunity for widespread corruption, it’s not a very easy thing to regulate compared to in person voting.
Funny no one has ever questioned the legitimacy of the thousands of mail in ballots from military members for years.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:00 pm

Quann wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:00 pm Say we’re back to normal in 2024 pandemic wise, are people really going to be too lazy to walk into a polling station to vote early or vote on Election Day? If they are do they really deserve to vote? My opinion is no.


I agree with this... it is why I have never liked the idea of mail-in/early voting. People have gotten lazy, don't care about how our government functions and generally are unwilling to change it.


But come on... at this point, the precedent has been set and now EVERY STATE needs to figure out how to make it work and avoid the crap we just went through... sorry, we're going through. They have ample time to make it work.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Crank » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:20 pm

Maybe I'm crazy but I fail to see how showing up in person and telling an 80 year old woman my address and name is such a secure and efficient system. I also don't think it's lazy to want to vote by mail/absentee and I'd say it invites greater participation. There are many situations that come up last minute that could prevent someone from voting in person on one specific day per year such as illness, business travel, child care issues, etc... Having a viable alternative allows those with unpredictable schedules/lives to ensure their own participation ahead of time.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by e_parade » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:22 pm

Quann wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:00 pm
e_parade wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:58 am
Quann wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:22 am ^^^
Well then look forward to a whole lot of this post election mess in the future. Widespread mail in balloting is not very smart (IMHO) and this would have been a widely agreed upon statement from everybody prior to this election. Now it has somehow turned into a political statement to say this. Georgia is now doing a statewide hand recount of all ballots. Hopefully this is all settled by inauguration day :roll:
Citation needed.

Multiple states have been using 100% mail in ballots for multiple elections by this point (both historically blue and red states included) - they do also allow for in person voting, but the vast majority do so through mail: Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Hawaii, and Utah. The issue didn't come in with the increase in mail in voting, it came in with state legislatures not allowing anything to happen with the ballots until election day. Notice that Florida, of all states, had no issues with reporting the vast majority of votes on election day despite having millions of mail in ballots. Why? They started processing ballots 22 days prior to the election. There was no backlog to get through. There was no controversy where people thought it all magically changed through "ballot drops" or "new ballots" when in reality it was just the ballots that arrived on time not being able to get counted quickly. PA tried to get it so mail in ballots could be processed prior to election day, but that was shot down for them.
So we went from 5 states using it in the past election to 50 states using it now, of course there were going to be issues. Say we’re back to normal in 2024 pandemic wise, are people really going to be too lazy to walk into a polling station to vote early or vote on Election Day? If they are do they really deserve to vote? My opinion is no. Why open up the opportunity for widespread corruption, it’s not a very easy thing to regulate compared to in person voting.
Prove the corruption has happened. Prove even the opportunity for corruption. And I do mean prove. Having issues like timing of the counting or mail being delayed is one thing. Actual literal corruption is another.


There's 4 years before the next presidential election, and 2 years until the midterms. The other states have ample opportunity to make their updates. I support mail in ballots because there are people out there who end up working 7 days a week and can't take time off at all in order to make it to an actual polling station. Other areas only have single locations for early voting, and not everyone is able to make it to that area in their county. The goal shouldn't be to make it hard for anyone to vote. We need to make voting as easy and transparent as possible. Saying that people are "lazy" because they can't make it to a polling station when not everyone has the ability to have even an ounce of free time is a terrible way to look at it. Sure, some people will prefer it (hell, it was a shit ton easier for me to walk down the street and drop my vote off at city hall on my lunch break), but doing something an easier way isn't lazy if it gets the same result. It's smart.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Quann » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:41 pm

My early voting experience took a total of 5 minutes out of one day in October. I’m pretty sure everybody can spare those few minutes once every 4 years. We’ll see what happens with the recount in Georgia and the court rulings in PA. My guess is it won’t change the result but it is ok to want to investigate Some of these states with how the results played out. If nothing comes out of it we move on and Joe is sworn in as president in Jan.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:42 pm

Crank wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:20 pm Maybe I'm crazy but I fail to see how showing up in person and telling an 80 year old woman my address and name is such a secure and efficient system. I also don't think it's lazy to want to vote by mail/absentee and I'd say it invites greater participation. There are many situations that come up last minute that could prevent someone from voting in person on one specific day per year such as illness, business travel, child care issues, etc... Having a viable alternative allows those with unpredictable schedules/lives to ensure their own participation ahead of time.

Cool! I don't agree on the lazy part... oh well. As I've now stated multiple times, it doesn't matter because the precedent has been set and now we need to make it work. You can beat the "I DISAGREE!" dead horse more if you'd like, of course.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Quann » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:46 pm

Crank wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:20 pm Maybe I'm crazy but I fail to see how showing up in person and telling an 80 year old woman my address and name is such a secure and efficient system. I also don't think it's lazy to want to vote by mail/absentee and I'd say it invites greater participation. There are many situations that come up last minute that could prevent someone from voting in person on one specific day per year such as illness, business travel, child care issues, etc... Having a viable alternative allows those with unpredictable schedules/lives to ensure their own participation ahead of time.
Right, someone serving overseas or away at school is the same thing as the person who lives within a mile of their polling place. False equivalence. This is why we’ve had absentee balloting for a long time, an enlisted GI overseas can’t just walk into his local polling place in Kabul. The American that lives and votes in the same town can take a few minutes to go vote in person. We’re talking once every four years! Have we really gotten this apathetic about the voting process?

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by e_parade » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:25 pm

Quann wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:41 pm My early voting experience took a total of 5 minutes out of one day in October. I’m pretty sure everybody can spare those few minutes once every 4 years. We’ll see what happens with the recount in Georgia and the court rulings in PA. My guess is it won’t change the result but it is ok to want to investigate Some of these states with how the results played out. If nothing comes out of it we move on and Joe is sworn in as president in Jan.
Your early voting experience isn't the same as everyone's. There were people in other states who reported waiting over an hour to do early voting. Even just down the street from me (I literally can see city hall from where I live) there was a line around the corner all day on the early voting days on saturdays.

We seriously need to stop assuming everyone has the exact same experience across the board. That something is easy or works for you doesn't me it works the same everywhere.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Post by Crank » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:29 pm

I take it you don't travel frequently for work; often at the last minute. There are a lot of reasons a person might be unable to make it to the polls besides being lazy or apathetic. The goal should be to get as much civic participation as possible. Why make it harder just because it's always been that way?

Sorry-had to get my last shots in at that dead horse!

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