FIRE WALT BELL!

Ringing the Bell on a new era of UM Football.
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Steve81
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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by Steve81 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:17 pm

Would have included a broader view of the North East and only considered G5 universities to be fair with no ill intent of comparing us to a P5 university.

Temple, 7 - 1 in the AAC East in 2018 and noting lost to Buffalo, another team, I'd consider to be in the more national view of the Northeast
Temple is currently 5-3 in 2019 and again lost to Buffalo.

We are more like Buffalo in the regard that they went FBS in 1998 and struggled for almost 20 years. But in the end was able to improve both Football and Basketball and their stadium and fan experience. In 14 years to have the same number of years of FBS, we'd probably be ahead of them. The next 6 years will be interesting but you want a fair comparison would say Buffalo and the best G5 team is tough but will say Temple.

http://theamerican.org/standings.aspx?standings=43 2018
http://theamerican.org/standings.aspx?standings=58 2019
Last edited by Steve81 on Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by Used to be VOR » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:40 pm

I think using Buffalo and Temple are fair comparisons as well. Don't disagree at all.

According to the NCAA Buffalo averaged 18,380 in attendance in 2018

Temple's average attendance was 28,470

I think (total opinion here) that college sports are much bigger in Philly then in Massachusetts. But for our stadium to even be able to handle that attendance (if we ever had that kind of interest) would require another huge capital expenditure.

UMass attendance was 10,385

BC averaged 37,623

UConn averaged 20,924

And FCS school New Hampshire averaged 10,154
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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by Steve81 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:46 pm

We are more Buffalo like in needs and investments and doing fine in using their same time table.

Temple is renting a FBS stadium and been fighting a tough battle for an on campus facilities.
Talk about a huge investment.

You also realize UNH made according to your standards, a huge investment in their stadium recently.
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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by Quann » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:07 am

We also had a higher average attendance when we were FCS during the 2000s because the quality of the UMass football product was far superior to present day. We’d be up near 20k per game if we were even half decent. Nobody wants to watch terrible football whether it’s fbs or fcs.

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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by Used to be VOR » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:04 am

Quann wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:07 am
We also had a higher average attendance when we were FCS during the 2000s because the quality of the UMass football product was far superior to present day. We’d be up near 20k per game if we were even half decent. Nobody wants to watch terrible football whether it’s fbs or fcs.
I agree 100% and that is kind of my point. Without a quality conference I am not sure FBS makes much sense when we could have just as much fan impact with FCS.
Turns out, just because you write your name on a baby doesn't mean you get to keep it."

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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by MJatUM » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:21 am

It was also a lot easier for most of our opponents to travel to the game so we had an extra away fan boost as well.

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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:31 am

It's all about the money. The program finished in the black last year, and the budget gap has been much smaller as an FBS team than as an FCS team.


The problems with football are much deeper institutional problems that have been around for decades. Even if Bell turns us into a winner in the next few years, not fixing the other issues (conference alignment, student engagement in areas other than sports, alumni engagement/alumni association, cross-department cooperation, etc.) will result in the same problem once the winning falters.
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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by Steve81 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:48 am

Used to be VOR, we almost agree. Without a conference we are pissing into the wind. Have been listening and posting thoughts on this issue for a while. Think with UConn, down the road as it will take time for them to realize that being in a FBS G5 conference has it's advantages.

Specifically think a FB Only with CUSA is possible. CUSA does not get a ton of money for their media deal. Their is money from the CFP but not a lot. Heck the 300k for each team making the APR is better than we will get as more independents means less money per team for the 0.5% allocated to teams not ND. Even the bottom G5, CFP performance pool is some money and the 10 Million per G5 conference pool. They are trying to restore their lost ground in BB and with us getting better and with UConn, think they will listen. UConn also needs to run out there separation agreement with the AAC and required BB games.

To make things perfectly clear, being in a conference allows you to compete in, using some bb terms, a conference tournament/conference championship game and the NIT/bowl game. Those third season/post season possibilities/goals, greatly expands our candidate pool for coaching staff and recruits.

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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by minutefanjsf » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:03 pm

Used to be VOR wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:04 am
Quann wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:07 am
We also had a higher average attendance when we were FCS during the 2000s because the quality of the UMass football product was far superior to present day. We’d be up near 20k per game if we were even half decent. Nobody wants to watch terrible football whether it’s fbs or fcs.
I agree 100% and that is kind of my point. Without a quality conference I am not sure FBS makes much sense when we could have just as much fan impact with FCS.
We are not far off attendance wise from the point when we were continually challenging for number 1 in FCS. You don't need a conference to win. Winning brings fans. And if our cellar in FBS for attendance is near the ceiling in FCS, it is a no brainier to stay in FBS. In Molnar's first year band day vs Miami was over 20k at Gillette. Yes regional rivals can travel to Amherst, but when it's an equally sucky UConn no bump even on homecoming. One thing I'd like to see when the need arises is that seats on the FPC are ticketed and taking up a seat in the general population.

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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by MJatUM » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:07 pm

Steve81 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:48 am
Specifically think a FB Only with CUSA is possible. CUSA does not get a ton of money for their media deal. Their is money from the CFP but not a lot. Heck the 300k for each team making the APR is better than we will get as more independents means less money per team for the 0.5% allocated to teams not ND. Even the bottom G5, CFP performance pool is some money and the 10 Million per G5 conference pool. They are trying to restore their lost ground in BB and with us getting better and with UConn, think they will listen. UConn also needs to run out there separation agreement with the AAC and required BB games.
I would have to imagine a package deal for both UMass and UConn for FB only is exactly what we and UConn want. Unfortunately I'm not sure even the CUSA would take us both now. Tough to jump at the prospect of adding 2 bottom 5 teams.

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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by Steve81 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:42 pm

MJatUM wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:07 pm
Steve81 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:48 am
Specifically think a FB Only with CUSA is possible. CUSA does not get a ton of money for their media deal. Their is money from the CFP but not a lot. Heck the 300k for each team making the APR is better than we will get as more independents means less money per team for the 0.5% allocated to teams not ND. Even the bottom G5, CFP performance pool is some money and the 10 Million per G5 conference pool. They are trying to restore their lost ground in BB and with us getting better and with UConn, think they will listen. UConn also needs to run out there separation agreement with the AAC and required BB games.
I would have to imagine a package deal for both UMass and UConn for FB only is exactly what we and UConn want. Unfortunately I'm not sure even the CUSA would take us both now. Tough to jump at the prospect of adding 2 bottom 5 teams.
I'll use the same argument for what was told for the AAC. It's the basketball games they are interested. Think a deal in a year or two with a year or two of lead time would then help UConn and us recruit better and fill up those scholarship limits. Then we would be competitive, not necessarily good. but gettig better. Basketball must have dramatic improvements, which is possible. Think we are a point guard away for being really good in the near future.

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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by eldonabe » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:07 pm

Steve81 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:42 pm
MJatUM wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:07 pm
Steve81 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:48 am
Specifically think a FB Only with CUSA is possible. CUSA does not get a ton of money for their media deal. Their is money from the CFP but not a lot. Heck the 300k for each team making the APR is better than we will get as more independents means less money per team for the 0.5% allocated to teams not ND. Even the bottom G5, CFP performance pool is some money and the 10 Million per G5 conference pool. They are trying to restore their lost ground in BB and with us getting better and with UConn, think they will listen. UConn also needs to run out there separation agreement with the AAC and required BB games.
I would have to imagine a package deal for both UMass and UConn for FB only is exactly what we and UConn want. Unfortunately I'm not sure even the CUSA would take us both now. Tough to jump at the prospect of adding 2 bottom 5 teams.
I'll use the same argument for what was told for the AAC. It's the basketball games they are interested. Think a deal in a year or two with a year or two of lead time would then help UConn and us recruit better and fill up those scholarship limits. Then we would be competitive, not necessarily good. but gettig better. Basketball must have dramatic improvements, which is possible. Think we are a point guard away for being really good in the near future.
We may have that too Steve..... If East and Mitchell stick around they will be a very dangerous back court as they will have two kids who can run full speed and not burn out because of the depth.
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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by MJatUM » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:37 pm

Steve I think we agree. Any team taking on UMass and/or UConn football would be making a bet that they get better and hoping to capitalize on other sports (mainly hoops). I don't think either UMass or UConn have any interest in moving all sports. The AAC just became less interesting to us now that UConn is out. I think the best course for UMass football at this point is either a) football only affiliation or b) wait for the big conference shake up coming in 2024 and 2025 and see where the chips fall and make your move then..

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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by McKinney » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:11 pm

I'm far more excited by the prospect of a select few FCS teams joining us in the bowels of FBS independence (or as members of a new northeast-ish based conference) than us ever returning to FCS.
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Re: FIRE WALT BELL!

Post by MJatUM » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:27 pm

^ I almost posted this same thing... I think the best thing UMass could do is convince one or some of URI, UNH, Maine - even some of the VA schools - to jump up and join/start a new conference. Think this might be possible in the middle of the next decade when I think the P5->G5 will Almost be like 1A->1AA

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