Whip Gone?

Ringing the Bell on a new era of UM Football.
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Steve81
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by Steve81 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:34 pm

Yup and Whip is not gone, but has stepped down from HC.

McKinney
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by McKinney » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:42 pm

Steve81 wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:04 pm
Since no more then 50 teams out of 350 can generate a profit, how much should students and taxpayers pay per capital as an acceptable amount.
Good question.
Bay Area UMie wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:05 am
investment that justifies substantial institutional support including burdening cash-starved students with mandatory payment fees that annually exceed $2.4m.
$2.4M for football, so like $80 per student per year? You know I spend like 6-8 times that on books each semester right? $80 is like two maybe three days worth of meals at our #1 dining halls.
Ryan McKinney - Class of 2019 - @mckinney2019

78
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by 78 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:47 pm

Bay Area Umie's post is my favorite in the long history of this board...The word awesome does not being to describe it!
Bamford has erased McCutcheon

NilesGold
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by NilesGold » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:49 pm

Bay Area UMie wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:05 am
”Off-Topic The Sky is Falling Post”-Are you serious? After 7 years of investing $50m-$60m, dismissing 2 head coaches and minimal fan/student/alumni support you don’t believe the administration should perform an objective “deep-dive” analysis (I hesitate to call it a “post-mortem” analysis) to better understand the past 7 years and why projected revenues fall short of original projections and just as disturbingly why costs have outstripped projections. You don’t agree that this exercise will help decision makers better plan how we move forward? Nothing like bringing naiveté, rose-colored glasses as well as the very same biases you accuse a very accomplished expert in the field of college athletics of having to the table. (More on this later)…
I wouldn't be opposed to an objective deep-dive analysis into FBS football for UMass, but I don't think you'd learn much. For lack of a better word, FBS football is a glorified marketing expense for most schools, not that there's anything wrong with that, companies can spend many millions of dollars on marketing. Cost/benefit of marketing expenses is a difficult thing to calculate.

Projected revenues have fallen short because the teams have performed poorly, and the teams have performed poorly because our shit-show of an AD made terrible hires.

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DEM
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by DEM » Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:10 pm

^
Good post, I agree with basically all of it.

ZooMass84
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by ZooMass84 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:23 am

Bay Area UMie wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:05 am
Jack wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:37 am
DEM wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:20 am
^
Except that your analysis seems to ignore how poor a financial model FCS football is. FCS was no more sustainable for UMass, and the upside is/was significantly lower than FBS. My condolences about the Whipple firing by the way. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.
Yes of course this "analysis" ignores many things but bay area umie needs some type of lame excuse to hijack this thread, draft a 6 paragraph chicken little / sky is falling off topic tome trashing UMass Football and ball washing smith college professor andrew zimbalist who also opposes UMass Football....a totally clueless and out of touch off topic screed......... LOL Happy Thanksgiving Turkey. !!
Typical post from “Jack”- long on invective, short on substance, data and rationale.

Why am I not surprised that you failed to refute any of the data or evidence I presented nor did you present a compelling thesis on how and why after 7 years of concrete, discernible results that fall far short of original naive projections UMass FBS football is a wise investment that justifies substantial institutional support including burdening cash-starved students with mandatory payment fees that annually exceed $2.4m.

Let me quickly address your laughable, incoherent rant with some hard facts and a little reciprocal vitriol:

”Off-Topic The Sky is Falling Post”-Are you serious? After 7 years of investing $50m-$60m, dismissing 2 head coaches and minimal fan/student/alumni support you don’t believe the administration should perform an objective “deep-dive” analysis (I hesitate to call it a “post-mortem” analysis) to better understand the past 7 years and why projected revenues fall short of original projections and just as disturbingly why costs have outstripped projections. You don’t agree that this exercise will help decision makers better plan how we move forward? Nothing like bringing naiveté, rose-colored glasses as well as the very same biases you accuse a very accomplished expert in the field of college athletics of having to the table. (More on this later)…

”Trash UMass Football” –As stated, I have nothing but respect, admiration and great gratitude for all past and present UMass athletes. I am, however, calling out the prior administration/leadership group in retrospect for some very poor analysis and naïve planning projections that got us in this precarious situation. I am hopeful that the current administration will critically look at the last 7 years to develop an effective, well-thought out go-forward plan that best serves the needs of the entire University, not just a very vocal minority-all options should be explored…

”Clueless”-Speaking of clueless who was the vocal poster that confidently projected an 8-9 win season for the team? Perhaps we can turn your predictive inclinations into a positive. Maybe you can utilize the propriety predictive model you developed for the win total prediction (or perhaps you rely on a crystal ball) to generate your favorite 5-6 common stock market picks over the next six months so we all can confidently sell your selections short and make a few bucks-how about letting us all capitalize on your incompetent predictive skills Jack?…

“Five-Paragraph Tomb/Post”-Good point here. I should have realized you possess a miniscule attention span and an inability to process factual points and supporting data as well as an inability to deal with somewhat complex issues. Next time I will post a Cliff Notes version specifically for you-my apologies for the obvious oversight…

”Zimbalist is Anti-UMass Football”-Please expand on this one. I can’t wait to read your rationale to support your absurd claim-oh wait I forgot you never provide any supporting rationale for anything you post. Anybody not familiar with Andrew Zimbalist should google his name and read this guy’s stellar credentials-obviously not as strong as Jack’s bonafides but how many scholars can match the depth and breadth of Jack’s knowledge on any subject.
And just to annoy Jack and prove I am a Zimbalist ‘ball-washer” as Jack asserts (see “ball-washer” section below) here is another quotation from the man about the UMass upgrade…

“I wish them luck, but I just don’t see how it works competitively, financially, or educationally,’’ said Andrew Zimbalist, a Smith College professor who is one of the nation’s leading sports economists and has consulted for the NCAA. “I hope I’m wrong, but it seems like kind of a farce.

”Bay Area UMie is a Turkey”-Nice holiday related double entendre. You got a nice chuckle out of me….

“Bay Area UMie Is A Ball-Washer”- Gee, this locker-room zinger had me reminiscing of my old days walking the hallowed halls of Boston Latin. “Ball-Washer” was a favorite expression the scholars from Dorchester liked to chuck around-Hey Jack did you grow up in “The Dot”?
Bay Area Umie:

Excellent analysis, etc. But, like I told John lescott hair or whatever, why do you care what UMass spends or doesn't spend? Are you paying for the sport? Are you personally writing checks for Whipple or all the assistants? The team sucks, I get it. It's been 7 years of losing (although the App State and BYU wins in 2017 were awesome). The point is that we are FBS and its great. Its great exposure for the school and its great to see UMass in the vegas betting odds and all the football magazines. By the way, out of state applications have really increased since the move up.

What I don't understand is people saying: UMass should drop football or go back down to 1AA. It's not going to happen. I understand why the professors at the school are against FBS football. They somehow think that the increased expenditures are reducing their finances when they are wrong. It's not a zero-sum game. One has nothing to do the other. The Max Pages of academia are always against sports.

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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by 78 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:40 am

^^^
I do love how you continue to fabricate that the increase in applications to attend UMass is related to moving up to FBS. I’m not going to waste my time discussing why out of state applications are up, but can assure you it has little or nothing to do with FBS football. I want UMass to succeed in FBS and hope they hire the right coach and invest the proper resources to make it happen.
Bamford has erased McCutcheon

Billybuck
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by Billybuck » Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:09 pm

NilesGold wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:49 pm
Bay Area UMie wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:05 am
”Off-Topic The Sky is Falling Post”-Are you serious? After 7 years of investing $50m-$60m, dismissing 2 head coaches and minimal fan/student/alumni support you don’t believe the administration should perform an objective “deep-dive” analysis (I hesitate to call it a “post-mortem” analysis) to better understand the past 7 years and why projected revenues fall short of original projections and just as disturbingly why costs have outstripped projections. You don’t agree that this exercise will help decision makers better plan how we move forward? Nothing like bringing naiveté, rose-colored glasses as well as the very same biases you accuse a very accomplished expert in the field of college athletics of having to the table. (More on this later)…
I wouldn't be opposed to an objective deep-dive analysis into FBS football for UMass, but I don't think you'd learn much. For lack of a better word, FBS football is a glorified marketing expense for most schools, not that there's anything wrong with that, companies can spend many millions of dollars on marketing. Cost/benefit of marketing expenses is a difficult thing to calculate.

Projected revenues have fallen short because the teams have performed poorly, and the teams have performed poorly because our shit-show of an AD made terrible hires.
And...he is not a good human...oh the things he has covered up...not good things....and if it ever got out in the open....wow!

minutefanjsf
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by minutefanjsf » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:52 pm

Billybuck wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:09 pm
NilesGold wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:49 pm
Bay Area UMie wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:05 am
”Off-Topic The Sky is Falling Post”-Are you serious? After 7 years of investing $50m-$60m, dismissing 2 head coaches and minimal fan/student/alumni support you don’t believe the administration should perform an objective “deep-dive” analysis (I hesitate to call it a “post-mortem” analysis) to better understand the past 7 years and why projected revenues fall short of original projections and just as disturbingly why costs have outstripped projections. You don’t agree that this exercise will help decision makers better plan how we move forward? Nothing like bringing naiveté, rose-colored glasses as well as the very same biases you accuse a very accomplished expert in the field of college athletics of having to the table. (More on this later)…
I wouldn't be opposed to an objective deep-dive analysis into FBS football for UMass, but I don't think you'd learn much. For lack of a better word, FBS football is a glorified marketing expense for most schools, not that there's anything wrong with that, companies can spend many millions of dollars on marketing. Cost/benefit of marketing expenses is a difficult thing to calculate.

Projected revenues have fallen short because the teams have performed poorly, and the teams have performed poorly because our shit-show of an AD made terrible hires.
And...he is not a good human...oh the things he has covered up...not good things....and if it ever got out in the open....wow!
McCutcheon covered things up?

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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by Floyd » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:56 pm

Billybuck let that one slip through the wickets
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Billybuck
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by Billybuck » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:06 pm

I love you guys and your dedication to an amazing program.

ZooMass84
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by ZooMass84 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:24 pm

78 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:40 am
^^^
I do love how you continue to fabricate that the increase in applications to attend UMass is related to moving up to FBS. I’m not going to waste my time discussing why out of state applications are up, but can assure you it has little or nothing to do with FBS football. I want UMass to succeed in FBS and hope they hire the right coach and invest the proper resources to make it happen.
Out is state applications have doubled in the last few years or so, (to coincide with going FBS) yet you maintain one has nothing to do with other. Totally a coincidence!!! So what are your reasons for the increase?

minutefanjsf
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by minutefanjsf » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:32 pm

Billybuck wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:06 pm
I love you guys and your dedication to an amazing program.
I just want clarification that the AD you were referencing was a prior AD and not the current. No need to know what he covered up. It is long since passed.

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Old Cage
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by Old Cage » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:34 pm

^ ^ Encouraging out-of-state students with lower test scores to apply so we can fill a budget gap?

http://www.wbur.org/edify/2018/05/29/ou ... s-to-umass

I'm guessing that most out-of-state applicants don't know and don't care that we have a football team.
"Jack didn’t have any envy in him," Calipari said. "He was the greatest coach to ever coach here."

Billybuck
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Re: Whip Gone?

Post by Billybuck » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:35 pm

minutefanjsf wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:32 pm
Billybuck wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:06 pm
I love you guys and your dedication to an amazing program.
I just want clarification that the AD you were referencing was a prior AD and not the current. No need to know what he covered up. It is long since passed.
Not prior....that was my fault...not very smart.

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