State of the Progam

Ringing the Bell on a new era of UM Football.
User avatar
MJatUM
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4404
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:46 pm
Location: Attleboro

Re: State of the Progam

Post by MJatUM » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:26 am

jjmc85 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:49 pm
dennisdent wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:57 am

Too bad Bell will make a lot money for ruining a proud program. It is what it is...
This quote is a head scratcher. It’s not like Bell took over for Brown and drove the team into the ground. The team has been bad for quite some time. A few of Whipple’s seasons could be called mediocre I guess, but for the most part there hasn’t been much to be proud of since Coen was quarterback.
Beat me to it. The program has been in the dumps for a while. Sure it's now buried deeper in the dump, but like you said... it is what it is.

User avatar
jjmc85
Senior
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:07 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: State of the Progam

Post by jjmc85 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:19 pm

Jack wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:17 am
Scratch your head all you like - The fact is that Whipple had the program making incremental progress. this was apparently insufficient and the decision was made to hire Bell to improve the program and thus far that decision appears to have been a colossal mistake. But by all means feel free to go cheer on Bell's invincible Hurry Up No Huddle scheme :roll:
I think what Whipple did was amazing. I don’t know that the fanbase fully appreciated how much he did in the toughest place to do it. I wonder if he had chosen his words more carefully after the Ohio game if he’d still have a job.
UMass Football: 22-3 at home when I was a student.

User avatar
SJGMoney
Junior
Posts: 395
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:01 pm
Location: Danvers, MA

Re: State of the Progam

Post by SJGMoney » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:01 pm

Whipple got us as far as he could, when you only believe in and recruit one side of the ball you can only go so far. Bell should have built on the strength and started to rebuild the defense. Instead he destroyed the strength and made the weak worse, both sides in historical fashion.
UMass '87

dennisdent
Junior
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 7:18 pm
Location: Too close to the Beltway

Re: State of the Progam

Post by dennisdent » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:23 pm

jjmc85 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:49 pm
dennisdent wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:57 am

Too bad Bell will make a lot money for ruining a proud program. It is what it is...
This quote is a head scratcher. It’s not like Bell took over for Brown and drove the team into the ground. The team has been bad for quite some time. A few of Whipple’s seasons could be called mediocre I guess, but for the most part there hasn’t been much to be proud of since Coen was quarterback.
WRONG! This program under Whip was being looked at as a potential bowl eligible team during Froh's second season and last season. This program was bad during CM's, but at least competitive (not bad) during Whip's.

UMass football is a freaking joke under Bell! Just watch College Game Day this season. It was NEVER like this under Whip. CM had the excuse of the transition. Even with KM the program was "mediocre." Did you even watch the games this season?

dennisdent
Junior
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 7:18 pm
Location: Too close to the Beltway

Re: State of the Progam

Post by dennisdent » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:26 pm

Jack wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:17 am
Scratch your head all you like - The fact is that Whipple had the program making incremental progress. this was apparently insufficient and the decision was made to hire Bell to improve the program and thus far that decision appears to have been a colossal mistake. But by all means feel free to go cheer on Bell's invincible Hurry Up No Huddle scheme :roll:
Thanks Jack. I knew you would come around :D

User avatar
jjmc85
Senior
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:07 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: State of the Progam

Post by jjmc85 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:22 pm

dennisdent wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:23 pm
jjmc85 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:49 pm
dennisdent wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:57 am

Too bad Bell will make a lot money for ruining a proud program. It is what it is...
This quote is a head scratcher. It’s not like Bell took over for Brown and drove the team into the ground. The team has been bad for quite some time. A few of Whipple’s seasons could be called mediocre I guess, but for the most part there hasn’t been much to be proud of since Coen was quarterback.
WRONG! This program under Whip was being looked at as a potential bowl eligible team during Froh's second season and last season. This program was bad during CM's, but at least competitive (not bad) during Whip's.

UMass football is a freaking joke under Bell! Just watch College Game Day this season. It was NEVER like this under Whip. CM had the excuse of the transition. Even with KM the program was "mediocre." Did you even watch the games this season?
3-9 and 4-8 are aren’t what I’d call “potential bowl eligible” but ok. The hype was there to start the season. And then the team would go 0-6 to start the season and it would vanish.

Molnar was a disgrace regardless of situation. And yes, with Morris it was mediocre. No arguments here. But proud? The last time I’d use proud to describe this program would be under Brown TBH. Don’t get me wrong. There are moments where I’ve been proud of the team as a fan. Was proud of the first FBs win. Best win by an 0-9 team ever. Was proud when they upset Buffalo to keep the Bulls from a bowl. Was proud when they hung tough with several SEC teams. But as a whole it’s tough for me to call a program that at its best has lost 2 of every 3 games “proud.” Is that our bar for being “proud”? Winning percentages between 0.083 and 0.333 for 7 consecutive seasons before this? If so, we have very different definitions of the term proud.
UMass Football: 22-3 at home when I was a student.

dennisdent
Junior
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 7:18 pm
Location: Too close to the Beltway

Re: State of the Progam

Post by dennisdent » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:25 pm

jjmc85 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:22 pm
dennisdent wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:23 pm
jjmc85 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:49 pm

This quote is a head scratcher. It’s not like Bell took over for Brown and drove the team into the ground. The team has been bad for quite some time. A few of Whipple’s seasons could be called mediocre I guess, but for the most part there hasn’t been much to be proud of since Coen was quarterback.
WRONG! This program under Whip was being looked at as a potential bowl eligible team during Froh's second season and last season. This program was bad during CM's, but at least competitive (not bad) during Whip's.

UMass football is a freaking joke under Bell! Just watch College Game Day this season. It was NEVER like this under Whip. CM had the excuse of the transition. Even with KM the program was "mediocre." Did you even watch the games this season?
3-9 and 4-8 are aren’t what I’d call “potential bowl eligible” but ok. The hype was there to start the season. And then the team would go 0-6 to start the season and it would vanish.

Molnar was a disgrace regardless of situation. And yes, with Morris it was mediocre. No arguments here. But proud? The last time I’d use proud to describe this program would be under Brown TBH. Don’t get me wrong. There are moments where I’ve been proud of the team as a fan. Was proud of the first FBs win. Best win by an 0-9 team ever. Was proud when they upset Buffalo to keep the Bulls from a bowl. Was proud when they hung tough with several SEC teams. But as a whole it’s tough for me to call a program that at its best has lost 2 of every 3 games “proud.” Is that our bar for being “proud”? Winning percentages between 0.083 and 0.333 for 7 consecutive seasons before this? If so, we have very different definitions of the term proud.
Starting 0 - 6 and winning four of the next six games is a proud program that never quit. Coming back and beating Liberty after being down with two minutes left is a proud program. This year's team was blown out in 11 games because of a sorry excuse for a coach who each week who was too stubborn or incompetent to change. The players were set up to fail by Bell! Most games were over by halftime (UMass was outscored 417 - 140 in the first half). Not sure why you are defending Bell :wink:

User avatar
SJGMoney
Junior
Posts: 395
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:01 pm
Location: Danvers, MA

Re: State of the Progam

Post by SJGMoney » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:03 pm

Thinking Whipple had to go is not defending Bell, that's what I think he's trying to say. I wouldn't let Walt Bell mow my lawn but Whipple can be my OC any day. What he can't be is my Head Coach.
UMass '87

stevemaz
Junior
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:23 am

Re: State of the Progam

Post by stevemaz » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:52 am

There is always a danger of hiring a coach who had no head coaching experience and I think Bell made many mistakes, but it does not mean that he cannot improve himself. I believe the number reason he was hired was his recruiting ability so let's see how that turns out this offseason. Bell basically was starting over as the last 2 or 3 Whipple recruiting classes were weak, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

We have no choice but to stay the course and see how things develop through next season. Bell needs to have a mix of incoming freshmen (looks like for now that part of the class is decent for a G5) and grad/JC transfers. He needs to land next year's starting QB who can actually "run" the offense and a 3 or 4 good DL/LBs to clog up the middle and stop the run somewhat. A good defensive goal next year is to keep every opponent under 42 with an average of 35 or so. I think with the right QB we can score 5 times a game.

I expect 2 maybe 3 wins next year and a second decent recruiting class. Sure, If we go 0-12 or 1-11 and look like we did this year, Bell will have to go.

User avatar
Quann
Senior
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:17 pm
Location: Start Line, MA

Re: State of the Progam

Post by Quann » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:39 am

Cut the crap with this revisionist history, the program was going nowhere under Whipple, it was time for him to go. Right now it looks like Bell is an absolutely atrocious hire but you probably have to give him another year. If we are getting blown out 49-0 at halftime against mediocre opponents again next year, it’ll be time to can his ass.

User avatar
jjmc85
Senior
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:07 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: State of the Progam

Post by jjmc85 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:57 am

dennisdent wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:25 pm

Not sure why you are defending Bell :wink:
My intent at the outset of the conversation was twofold. One was to argue that Bell needs another year. It’s not good for a program to fire coaches two years in a row. We already have bad facilities (even with the improvements), a small fanbase (thankful the NCAA doesn’t care about the 15k rule!), no conference affiliation, no bowl tie ins (hopefully changing), and low budget for staff. We want to add 0 job security to that list too? I don’t think that’s a good way to attract quality candidates. Do you?

My second intent is to stress the point that Molnar is the worst head coach the program ever had. The evidence is there. Aside from the flag thing, he did just about everything wrong both on and off the field. He had advantages of a conference, bowl tie ins, playing where the Patriots play, and all the good will and excitement that comes with an upgrade. That’s all gone now. Saying Bell is not as bad as Molnar doesn’t mean Bell is good. He may very well be the second worst coach in program history. But he’s not the worst.

And I’m not willing to draw that conclusion after one season either. I want to see what improvements if any he makes. If it’s more of the same next season then sure, I’ll be right there with you. But while calling for him to lose his job, I’ll also be wondering who the hell can they bring in that will do any better. Most of the other Independents have significant advantages over us, in terms of facilities and/or history and/or big followings due to religious affiliations and/or location relative to recruiting hot beds and/or ability to get primary bowl tie ins/ and or distance from successful professional sports teams, etc.

I don’t know what coach, if any, can overcome all of that. I’ve come to think most would fail on the field here. I guess that’s why I’m not pissed at Bell. Maybe I’m wrong. I hope I am. But I’m basing it off of two full recruiting cycles of data.
UMass Football: 22-3 at home when I was a student.

dennisdent
Junior
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 7:18 pm
Location: Too close to the Beltway

Re: State of the Progam

Post by dennisdent » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:32 pm

jjmc85 I agree with much of your views and I know it seems harsh to call for his firing after one season but it was just tough to watch this past season play out.

I agree that it was time for Whip to go. He was burnt out and seemed past his prime as a head coach.

What gets me the most about Bell is that he kept putting a QB out there that has no business being on the field. Brito is just too small, slow, and fragile to be playing, but Bell kept sending him out there. Even Brito's bio on the UMass site says that he is a " Pro-style QB," which is defined as: "A pro-style offense in American football is any offensive scheme that resembles those predominantly used at the professional level of play in the National Football League, in contrast to those typically used at the collegiate or high school level." Wikipedia. Why the heck did Bell recruit Brito and then play him all season in a run/pass offense (RPO). This to me, makes me question everything about Bell being a head coach, or even an offensive coordinator...

I'm hoping the donors (which I'm one of) and football alumni, can get Bamford to put the pressure on Bell to make smarter coaching decisions next season...We'll see :shock:

McKinney
Senior
Posts: 1167
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:12 pm

Re: State of the Progam

Post by McKinney » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:48 pm

dennisdent wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:32 pm
Why the heck did Bell recruit Brito and then play him all season in a run/pass offense (RPO). This to me, makes me question everything about Bell being a head coach, or even an offensive coordinator...
FWIW Brady Martin is listed as a pro-style QB too. With that said he has a verified 40 time of 4.66 sec which is far more in line with dual-threat quarterbacks (as is his unverified shuttle time). He should have the athletic ability to run, is he willing to? I don't know. Has anyone here seen him play?
Class of 2019 - @StatsMass

dennisdent
Junior
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 7:18 pm
Location: Too close to the Beltway

Re: State of the Progam

Post by dennisdent » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:55 pm

McKinney wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:48 pm
dennisdent wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:32 pm
Why the heck did Bell recruit Brito and then play him all season in a run/pass offense (RPO). This to me, makes me question everything about Bell being a head coach, or even an offensive coordinator...
FWIW Brady Martin is listed as a pro-style QB too. With that said he has a verified 40 time of 4.66 sec which is far more in line with dual-threat quarterbacks (as is his unverified shuttle time). He should have the athletic ability to run, is he willing to? I don't know. Has anyone here seen him play?
Bell and his staff must see "pro-style" and think it means they are future pros because of their style of play. :twisted: I mean why else would he recruit QBs that don't play his style of football. Brito had something like -86 yards rushing this season.

User avatar
Quann
Senior
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:17 pm
Location: Start Line, MA

Re: State of the Progam

Post by Quann » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:22 am

SJGMoney wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:01 pm
Whipple got us as far as he could, when you only believe in and recruit one side of the ball you can only go so far. Bell should have built on the strength and started to rebuild the defense. Instead he destroyed the strength and made the weak worse, both sides in historical fashion.
Exactly how I feel. I’m not sure Bell has any clue how to recruit or coach a defense though (possibly the same on offense, look at his FSU performance history).

Post Reply