State of the Progam

Whip'ing the program back into shape.
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gr8won
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by gr8won » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:34 am

Just saw joe Connolly left for Arizona state.

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econalum
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by econalum » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:51 pm

THe above basically proves that most of the bowls are not worthy of the name 'bowl', unless toilet is in front of the word as well.
Feeling entitled is JUST a feeling...

McKinney
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by McKinney » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:04 pm

econalum wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:51 pm
THe above basically proves that most of the bowls are not worthy of the name 'bowl', unless toilet is in front of the word as well.
Then I suppose it shouldn't be an unreasonable goal for us to be a perennial or at least semi-perennial bowl eligible program. Of course I'd like to see us to get to bowl eligibility first. We're already 3 seasons behind when it was thought we'd first be eligible. :wink:
Ryan McKinney - Class of 2019 - @mckinney2019

Jack
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by Jack » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:51 am

McKinney wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:04 pm
We're already 3 seasons behind when it was thought we'd first be eligible. :wink:
False but funny.

minutefanjsf
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by minutefanjsf » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:33 am

Jack wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:51 am
McKinney wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:04 pm
We're already 3 seasons behind when it was thought we'd first be eligible. :wink:
False but funny.
Not really false. If you go back and look at McCutcheon and Molnar quotes, you'll see they predicted a five year build to be bowl eligible. We are going into year 8 after the announcement was made that we were moving to FBS. Also, if you look at what they said, they were comparing our transition to other schools like UConn and more recent schools who have made the jump. And, those schools were near or had surpassed .500 records by year 5. Bowl eligible. Being bowl eligible by year 5 was part of the sales pitch to the public and STH to get us to buy in at Gillette and be founding members of the program to come. Especially those that bought the Putnam seats.

McKinney
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by McKinney » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:16 am

minutefanjsf wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:33 am
Jack wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:51 am
McKinney wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:04 pm
We're already 3 seasons behind when it was thought we'd first be eligible. :wink:
False but funny.
Not really false. If you go back and look at McCutcheon and Molnar quotes, you'll see they predicted a five year build to be bowl eligible. We are going into year 8 after the announcement was made that we were moving to FBS. Also, if you look at what they said, they were comparing our transition to other schools like UConn and more recent schools who have made the jump. And, those schools were near or had surpassed .500 records by year 5. Bowl eligible. Being bowl eligible by year 5 was part of the sales pitch to the public and STH to get us to buy in at Gillette and be founding members of the program to come. Especially those that bought the Putnam seats.
Yup. Then more recently we go back to the hype caused by losing several close games in Whipple's first season (2014) and returning a bunch of starters, notably there was hope that Froh was going to have a huge senior year. We were gonna leave the MAC with a "bang".https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... /30849143/
Ryan McKinney - Class of 2019 - @mckinney2019

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MJatUM
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by MJatUM » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:22 pm

Oh man - we're gonna have to fire up the excuse train again.

Jack
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by Jack » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:57 am

minutefanjsf wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:33 am
Jack wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:51 am
McKinney wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:04 pm
We're already 3 seasons behind when it was thought we'd first be eligible. :wink:
False but funny.
Not really false. If you go back and look at McCutcheon and Molnar quotes, you'll see they predicted a five year build to be bowl eligible. We are going into year 8 after the announcement was made that we were moving to FBS. Also, if you look at what they said, they were comparing our transition to other schools like UConn and more recent schools who have made the jump. And, those schools were near or had surpassed .500 records by year 5. Bowl eligible. Being bowl eligible by year 5 was part of the sales pitch to the public and STH to get us to buy in at Gillette and be founding members of the program to come. Especially those that bought the Putnam seats.
Yes, really quite false. Here are some facts for you: We're not going into year 8 after the announcement was made. 4/20/11 McCutcheon announced joining the MAC. Less than 7 yrs ago. UMass began the transition in 2012. Therefore being Bowl eligible by "year 5" would mean being bowl eligible in 2017. Not 3 years earlier...

Nobody who witnessed the Morris era or watched Charley molnar go 2-22 in 2012 & 2013 seriously believed that UMass would be playing in a bowl game in 2014. Some believed that we'd get there in 2017. I wasn't one of those people, but at least it had some plausibility. Anybody who thought we'd be bowling in 2014 was utterly clueless. Whip took over in 2014 - are there any quotes of Coach Whipple claiming that the team was going to be playing in a bowl game in 2014 ? :roll:

minutefanjsf
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by minutefanjsf » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:31 pm

Jack wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:57 am
minutefanjsf wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:33 am
Jack wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:51 am


False but funny.
Not really false. If you go back and look at McCutcheon and Molnar quotes, you'll see they predicted a five year build to be bowl eligible. We are going into year 8 after the announcement was made that we were moving to FBS. Also, if you look at what they said, they were comparing our transition to other schools like UConn and more recent schools who have made the jump. And, those schools were near or had surpassed .500 records by year 5. Bowl eligible. Being bowl eligible by year 5 was part of the sales pitch to the public and STH to get us to buy in at Gillette and be founding members of the program to come. Especially those that bought the Putnam seats.
Yes, really quite false. Here are some facts for you: We're not going into year 8 after the announcement was made. 4/20/11 McCutcheon announced joining the MAC. Less than 7 yrs ago. UMass began the transition in 2012. Therefore being Bowl eligible by "year 5" would mean being bowl eligible in 2017. Not 3 years earlier...

Nobody who witnessed the Morris era or watched Charley molnar go 2-22 in 2012 & 2013 seriously believed that UMass would be playing in a bowl game in 2014. Some believed that we'd get there in 2017. I wasn't one of those people, but at least it had some plausibility. Anybody who thought we'd be bowling in 2014 was utterly clueless. Whip took over in 2014 - are there any quotes of Coach Whipple claiming that the team was going to be playing in a bowl game in 2014 ? :roll:
Even if you don’t want the date of the announcement to mark the transition beginning, which is weird, this coming year would be year 7 by your math. Not eligible for FCS playoffs in 2011, means they were transitioning already. The announcement was made in the spring of 2011. The 2011 season was start of the transition. UMass played a full FBS school in 2012. 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 is six seasons. Next year, 2018 will be the seventh full FBS school UMass plays. So year five playing an FBS schedule was 2016. We have played seven seasons since the announcement was made. Next year is the eighth season after the announcement was made. The talk of being bowl eligible within five years was definitely part of the sales pitch. The fact that it didn’t pan out and Morris pooped the bed in 2011, during the transition year one, and then Molnar was arguably worse for two years doesn’t change the fact that the plan was a five year plan to be a .500 team when the announcement was made. So, 2015 was year 5. 2018 will be year 8.

http://dailycollegian.com/2014/12/03/cy ... -football/
http://dailycollegian.com/2015/09/10/cy ... e-in-2015/
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... ule-roster

minutefanjsf
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by minutefanjsf » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:32 pm

minutefanjsf wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:31 pm
Jack wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:57 am
minutefanjsf wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:33 am


Not really false. If you go back and look at McCutcheon and Molnar quotes, you'll see they predicted a five year build to be bowl eligible. We are going into year 8 after the announcement was made that we were moving to FBS. Also, if you look at what they said, they were comparing our transition to other schools like UConn and more recent schools who have made the jump. And, those schools were near or had surpassed .500 records by year 5. Bowl eligible. Being bowl eligible by year 5 was part of the sales pitch to the public and STH to get us to buy in at Gillette and be founding members of the program to come. Especially those that bought the Putnam seats.
Yes, really quite false. Here are some facts for you: We're not going into year 8 after the announcement was made. 4/20/11 McCutcheon announced joining the MAC. Less than 7 yrs ago. UMass began the transition in 2012. Therefore being Bowl eligible by "year 5" would mean being bowl eligible in 2017. Not 3 years earlier...

Nobody who witnessed the Morris era or watched Charley molnar go 2-22 in 2012 & 2013 seriously believed that UMass would be playing in a bowl game in 2014. Some believed that we'd get there in 2017. I wasn't one of those people, but at least it had some plausibility. Anybody who thought we'd be bowling in 2014 was utterly clueless. Whip took over in 2014 - are there any quotes of Coach Whipple claiming that the team was going to be playing in a bowl game in 2014 ? :roll:
Even if you don’t want the date of the announcement to mark the transition beginning, which is weird, this coming year would be year 7 by your math. Not eligible for FCS playoffs in 2011, means they were transitioning already. The announcement was made in the spring of 2011. The 2011 season was start of the transition. UMass played a full FBS schedule in 2012. 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 is six seasons. Next year, 2018 will be the seventh full FBS schedule UMass plays. So year five playing an FBS schedule was 2016. We have played seven seasons since the announcement was made. Next year is the eighth season after the announcement was made. The talk of being bowl eligible within five years was definitely part of the sales pitch. The fact that it didn’t pan out and Morris pooped the bed in 2011, during the transition year one, and then Molnar was arguably worse for two years doesn’t change the fact that the plan was a five year plan to be a .500 team when the announcement was made. So, 2015 was year 5. 2018 will be year 8.

http://dailycollegian.com/2014/12/03/cy ... -football/
http://dailycollegian.com/2015/09/10/cy ... e-in-2015/
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... ule-roster

Jack
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by Jack » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:59 pm

minutefanjsf wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:31 pm
Even if you don’t want the date of the announcement to mark the transition beginning, which is weird,
Why is it "weird" to state that the transition technically began on 4/20/11 when Mr. McCutcheon announced the transition?
minutefanjsf wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:31 pm
this coming year would be year 7 by your math
Its not "my math" - its simply math: April 2011 was less than 7 yrs ago. Hence the claim that "we are going into year 8 after the announcement"" is not accurate. we are going into year 7 after the announcement.
minutefanjsf wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:31 pm
The 2011 season was start of the transition
.

No it wasn't. The transition began with the announcement in 2011 but The 2011 season was not a transition season since preseason camp began only about 3 months after McCutcheon's announcement and since we played a CAA schedule in 2011. There was no transition plan. There were no transition activities during the 2011 season. We played a FCS schedule in the CAA w/a Kevin Morris as the lame duck coach. The transition truly began for practical purposes n December 2011 w/the hiring of Charley Molnar - who having coached at ND was supposedly going to transition UM into the MAC. First season of UMAss playing a FBS transition schedule was 2012. your argument that UMass played a transition schedule in 2011 is foolish - just look at the 2011 schedule and compare it to the 2012 schedule. Its a dumb argument for you to attempt to make.

Of course the truth is that 2012 and 2013 were stumbling and bumbling out of the gate - the real transition began in 2014 with the arrival of Mark Whipple. That is when you really see a program improving and transitioning.
minutefanjsf wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:31 pm
The talk of being bowl eligible within five years was definitely part of the sales pitch.
.

Right. First of all I have been a season ticket holder for many years and I never recall anybody at Mass trying to convince me to re-up my tickets because the team would be bowling in 5 years.... its not a very good pitch. But assuming there was some sales pitch in 2012 about bowl eligibility in 5 years... that would mean Bowl eligible in 2017....Not 2014.... .

Which means that you & I agree that the following statement was totally false:
McKinney wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:04 pm
We're already 3 seasons behind when it was thought we'd first be eligible. :wink:
- Totally false. :D
minutefanjsf wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:32 pm
The fact that it didn’t pan out and Morris pooped the bed in 2011
had nothing to do with anything. Once McCutcheon announced that we were transitioning to the MAC, Kevin Morris was clearly not going to be the UMass head coach after 2011 and he was not going to be the HC to lead the transition in 2012 - that is why Morris was quickly fired after the 2011 season and Charley Molnar was hired in December 2011 to supposedly lead the transition to the FBS schedule in 2012.

minutefanjsf wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:32 pm
doesn’t change the fact that the plan was a five year plan to be a .500 team when the announcement was made.
What "plan" are you referring to as a "fact"? Where is this plan? Just curious, Where is this mysterious 5 year plan and where are all these quotes from Umass officials in 2011 claiming that UMass would play in a bowl game in 2014 or 2015?
minutefanjsf wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:32 pm
So, 2015 was year 5. 2018 will be year 8.
Wrong again. Lets do the math. 2011 + 4 = 2015. 2011 +7 = 2018.

The 2015 Season was Whipple's second season and the fourth season of the Transition to FBS which began with playing the 2012 season schedule. The upcoming 2018 season will be the 7th Season since the transition to FBS. Hopefully we continue to see the improvement in the program that we have witnessed since 2015.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by minutefanjsf » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:41 pm

https://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/articl ... tation-mac

I guess the press release here is wrong. 2011 was the first year of the transition according to the school.

minutefanjsf
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by minutefanjsf » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:52 pm

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012 ... story.html

I guess this article quoting Molnar saying Freshmen Tajae Sharpe could be playing for a MAC title by his senior year is also not real.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by minutefanjsf » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:16 pm

I wish I could find all my season ticket renewal notices. I’ve been a STH for 19 years and remember vividly that Charley Monar included language in the 2012 and 2013 letters about how the Putnam club members and donors would be rewarded with high levels of play and MAC Championships would coming due to our support. McCutcheon started by saying it was a five year plan, but then adjusted that a year or two later to a 5-7 year plan. His language was always about money, not necessarily wins, but he said by year five the subsidy the school paid the football program will not be needed. Translation=bowl game revenue and increased attendance revenue.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by McKinney » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:09 pm

Ok now that we've overanalyzed the shit out of that... I was referring to the 2015 season. There was hope that Froh would have a big year (especially since in 2014 we lost 5 games by 7 points or less, with 3 of those games by 3 points or less, and the games we won came at a margin of 14 points or more), and we'd leave the MAC with a bang. I remember that very clearly that being the buzz my freshman year. I've also listed an article stating as such, as has JSF. Y'all need to calm down. Obviously the past three seasons didn't go the way we wanted (2015, 2016, and 2017).
Ryan McKinney - Class of 2019 - @mckinney2019

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