State of the Progam

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inthescoop
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by inthescoop » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:30 pm

Forget Whipple hiring Liam as our OC, I think that Liam will be Whipple’s replacement as our next coach. Learning under Sean McVay will be huge.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by minutefanjsf » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:31 am

inthescoop wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:30 pm Forget Whipple hiring Liam as our OC, I think that Liam will be Whipple’s replacement as our next coach. Learning under Sean McVay will be huge.
Pretty sure this puts us in Liam's rear view mirror.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by cox'n » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:05 am

minutefanjsf wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:31 am
inthescoop wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:30 pm Forget Whipple hiring Liam as our OC, I think that Liam will be Whipple’s replacement as our next coach. Learning under Sean McVay will be huge.
Pretty sure this puts us in Liam's rear view mirror.
Yes, because a coach with NFL experience would never coach at UMass.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by minutefanjsf » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:14 pm

cox'n wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:05 am
minutefanjsf wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:31 am
inthescoop wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:30 pm Forget Whipple hiring Liam as our OC, I think that Liam will be Whipple’s replacement as our next coach. Learning under Sean McVay will be huge.
Pretty sure this puts us in Liam's rear view mirror.
Yes, because a coach with NFL experience would never coach at UMass.
No. Point being he has risen from QB coach at Umass to OC at Maine, HC (never played a game) to NFL coach, he’s on a trajectory that should have him passed a fledging independent. Whip is around for at least two years, unless the wheels fall off. Liam will be moving up the ranks to point where HC of a UMass will be behind him within three years, unless of course this is his dream job. I’m not commenting on desire or our “prettiness”, more so on Liam's ascension. I would love him to come back and be an OC or HC. He captained the most prolific period in UMass history. I just think the timing is wrong for us, unfortunately.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by Swampy » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:51 pm

minutefanjsf wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:14 pm He captained the most prolific period in UMass history. I just think the timing is wrong for us, unfortunately.
In no way do I want to argue but I would just like to point out that for those of us that we're around in the 60s we had us some fun watching UMass football. 1968 sucked but with 8 YanCon Championships the rest of that decade was pretty 'effing prolific.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by McKinney » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:59 pm

Swampy wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:51 pm
minutefanjsf wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:14 pm He captained the most prolific period in UMass history. I just think the timing is wrong for us, unfortunately.
In no way do I want to argue but I would just like to point out that for those of us that we're around in the 60s we had us some fun watching UMass football. 1968 sucked but with 8 YanCon Championships the rest of that decade was pretty 'effing prolific.
That'd be an interesting discussion. Comparing the Fusia->MacPherson->Pickett era to the Whipple->Brown era. If you could build two all-time-great rosters from each era which team would win in a matchup?

How would a great College Division/DII team stack up against a great DI-AA/FCS team? What about against today's FBS team?

Who's team was best apt to make a transition to University Division/D1-A/FBS?
Fusia's 1963 team (8-0-1): Tie with University Division Harvard (5–2–2)
Fusia's 1964 team (8-2): College Division East Regional Final aka Tangerine Bowl, win over University Division Holy Cross (5-5)
MacPherson's 1972 team (9-2): Won College Division East Regional Final aka Boardwalk Bowl, win over University Division Harvard (4-4-1) and Boston College (4-7)
Pickett's 1978 team (9-4): First ever D1-AA Championship game aka Pioneer Bowl, win over D1-A Boston College (0-11)
Whipple's 1998 team (12-3): Won D1-AA Championship
Brown's 2006 team (13–2): FCS Championship game, Lost 20-21 to FBS Navy (9-4)
Brown's 2007 team (10-3): Lost 14-24 to FBS #12 Boston College (11-3)

Any other suggestions?
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by Swampy » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:02 am

Memory not what it used to be regarding stats but I do remember those mid 60s teams with Landry, Morin and Meers. Those and obviously Whips championship team were pretty special for this UMass fan.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by DEM » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:07 am

minutefanjsf wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:14 pm
cox'n wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:05 am
minutefanjsf wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:31 am

Pretty sure this puts us in Liam's rear view mirror.
Yes, because a coach with NFL experience would never coach at UMass.
No. Point being he has risen from QB coach at Umass to OC at Maine, HC (never played a game) to NFL coach, he’s on a trajectory that should have him passed a fledging independent. Whip is around for at least two years, unless the wheels fall off. Liam will be moving up the ranks to point where HC of a UMass will be behind him within three years, unless of course this is his dream job. I’m not commenting on desire or our “prettiness”, more so on Liam's ascension. I would love him to come back and be an OC or HC. He captained the most prolific period in UMass history. I just think the timing is wrong for us, unfortunately.
I think the point Cox'n was trying to make might have sailed past you. Whether you like him or not, we have a coach right now with a much bigger resume, including NFL experience. I'm not sure what you see on Liam Coen's bio at this point that makes you think he is even a guy we would want as head coach if we needed one. I think this is a classic case of infatuation secondary to UMass ties. Not saying he won't be a good head coach at the FBS college level or higher someday but his resume doesn't look that impressive to me just yet to the point that he'd be a first choice of UMass or any other FBS program.
Last edited by DEM on Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by minutefanjsf » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:08 am

McKinney wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:59 pm
Swampy wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:51 pm
minutefanjsf wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:14 pm He captained the most prolific period in UMass history. I just think the timing is wrong for us, unfortunately.
In no way do I want to argue but I would just like to point out that for those of us that we're around in the 60s we had us some fun watching UMass football. 1968 sucked but with 8 YanCon Championships the rest of that decade was pretty 'effing prolific.
That'd be an interesting discussion. Comparing the Fusia->MacPherson->Pickett era to the Whipple->Brown era. If you could build two all-time-great rosters from each era which team would win in a matchup?

How would a great College Division/DII team stack up against a great DI-AA/FCS team? What about against today's FBS team?

Who's team was best apt to make a transition to University Division/D1-A/FBS?
Fusia's 1963 team (8-0-1): Tie with University Division Harvard (5–2–2)
Fusia's 1964 team (8-2): College Division East Regional Final aka Tangerine Bowl, win over University Division Holy Cross (5-5)
MacPherson's 1972 team (9-2): Won College Division East Regional Final aka Boardwalk Bowl, win over University Division Harvard (4-4-1) and Boston College (4-7)
Pickett's 1978 team (9-4): First ever D1-AA Championship game aka Pioneer Bowl, win over D1-A Boston College (0-11)
Whipple's 1998 team (12-3): Won D1-AA Championship
Brown's 2006 team (13–2): FCS Championship game, Lost 20-21 to FBS Navy (9-4)
Brown's 2007 team (10-3): Lost 14-24 to FBS #12 Boston College (11-3)

Any other suggestions?
Well based in the results , we know we were a bit off timingwise to make the jump! Really wish we had jumped up in the early 2000s, which was still too late IMO. When the split happened in the late 70s we should not have gone 1aa. We were poised to jump for so long.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by Jack » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:23 am

The '72 season was weird. We crush Maine, H, bu, uri, ucon -racking up points ! next 2 wks we can barely score in losses to Bucknell & HC back to back.... Then we go on to roll up points and maul unh, bc and UC Davis to win the Boardwalk Bowl / East Championship.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by McKinney » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:28 pm

Jack wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:23 am The '72 season was weird. We crush Maine, H, bu, uri, ucon -racking up points ! next 2 wks we can barely score in losses to Bucknell & HC back to back.... Then we go on to roll up points and maul unh, bc and UC Davis to win the Boardwalk Bowl / East Championship.
You have to keep in mind that Holy Cross was University Division while we were College Division. Any win would have been considered an upset.
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by minutefanjsf » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:34 pm

DEM wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:07 am
minutefanjsf wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:14 pm
cox'n wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:05 am

Yes, because a coach with NFL experience would never coach at UMass.
No. Point being he has risen from QB coach at Umass to OC at Maine, HC (never played a game) to NFL coach, he’s on a trajectory that should have him passed a fledging independent. Whip is around for at least two years, unless the wheels fall off. Liam will be moving up the ranks to point where HC of a UMass will be behind him within three years, unless of course this is his dream job. I’m not commenting on desire or our “prettiness”, more so on Liam's ascension. I would love him to come back and be an OC or HC. He captained the most prolific period in UMass history. I just think the timing is wrong for us, unfortunately.
I think the point Cox'n was trying to make might have sailed past you. Whether you like him or not, we have a coach right now with a much bigger resume, including NFL experience. I'm not sure what you see on Liam Coen's bio at this point that makes you think he is even a guy we would want as head coach if we needed one. I think this is a classic case of infatuation secondary to UMass ties. Not saying he won't be a good head coach at the FBS college level or higher someday but his resume doesn't look that impressive to me just yet to the point that he'd be a first choice of UMass or any other FBS program.
I think my point was missed as well. I don’t think Whip is leaving anytime soon, and based on the trajectory Liam’s coaching career has taken, I believe that when Whip leaves, if Coen’s career path stays on its current course, he will probably be looking for something bigger than UMass. I am projecting what I think his resume will look like in 3-4 years, for sure. My guess is he’ll rise up close to an OC within three to four years. The trend right now in HC and coordinator hiring is looking for the young up and comer, which is Liam. The Rams want his college OC mind. I am not saying we need a HC, we have one, I agree.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by DEM » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:40 pm

Fair enough. I just thought it was premature to make the statement that UMass or any other FBS program are "in his rearview mirror" with a still relatively humble resume. But in 5 years, who knows. If he moves up as quickly as you think he will, then I will be happy for him either way.

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Re: State of the Progam

Post by McKinney » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:28 pm

minutefanjsf wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:08 am Well based in the results , we know we were a bit off timingwise to make the jump! Really wish we had jumped up in the early 2000s, which was still too late IMO. When the split happened in the late 70s we should not have gone 1aa. We were poised to jump for so long.
What's weird is that it's like we were in isolation of not moving up. There were teams all around us that were making moves. In 1964 we faced ECU (then East Carolina College) in the East College Division Regional Final (Tangerine Bowl). In 1965 ECU made the move to the University Division and joined the Southern Conference. In 1967 they began the first expansion of their stadium (which opened two years prior to McGuirk) from 10k to 20k, after three more expansions and regular renovations over the coming decades Ficklen Memorial Stadium would grow to 50,000 seats. Over the next decade 26 schools around the country would make the transition to or start at University Division/D1. By 1979, when schools who played DI basketball were forced to move DII football teams to the new DI-A and DI-AA, that number had grown to 38 schools.

While we were still playing Yankee Conference football in the late 70's and early 80's this would have actually been the best time to join or form a Division I-A conference. From 1976-78 there were five DI schools of the eight A10 (Eastern Eight) teams (71% excluding UMass), even up until the 1990 there were four DI-A teams in the conference (with the exception of 1980-81). In 1984 when Paterno publicly advocated for an Eastern Football Conference, four of the nine teams suggested ("Penn State, Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, West Virginia and Temple, perhaps Army and Navy" http://www.nytimes.com/1984/11/25/sport ... rence.html) were in the Atlantic 10 and Pittsburgh had left only three seasons prior.

The fact that five A10 teams (four of which were DI-A football schools) left for the Big East despite UMass being the top of the conference should have been a warning sign. You could also count six teams if you include Temple leaving in 2013 what was supposed to be the Big East BCS successor, the American. When UConn announced they'd be moving up to DI-A in January 1999, not even a month after UMass won the DI-AA National Championship, we should have done the same. Especially seeing how I believe this was one of the final years where moving up to DI-A independence (without a conference invitation) was allowed.
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Re: State of the Progam

Post by Jack » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:45 pm

McKinney wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:28 pm
Jack wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:23 am The '72 season was weird. We crush Maine, H, bu, uri, ucon -racking up points ! next 2 wks we can barely score in losses to Bucknell & HC back to back.... Then we go on to roll up points and maul unh, bc and UC Davis to win the Boardwalk Bowl / East Championship.
You have to keep in mind that Holy Cross was University Division while we were College Division. Any win would have been considered an upset.
Yeah I'm disagreeing that it would've been huge a upset to have beaten HC in '72. Especially for that UMass team. You have to keep in mind that UMass had beaten HC the 2 previous seasons, w/teams that weren't as good as MacPherson's '72 team. The '72 UMass team was loaded and regardless of being in the Univ. Div., HC wasn't a powerhouse at that point and hadn't been for some time.

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