Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Whip'ing the program back into shape.
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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by eldonabe » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:06 am

It was a little disappointing that they did not Handle Maine more convincingly.

However, I look at this as "a learning to how to win" kind of moment. We keep talking about how they have to learn how to win. This was textbook IMO. While the play calling still baffles me way too often, they still won the game.

What some are saying about UMass not really beating Maine - Miss State is saying about them not pounding UMass much more easily. The point is it happens to everyone. Umass figured out how to win that game after some tight moments - that is a good thing. In the past they would have found a way to lose.
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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by UMass'96 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:20 am

Some of you people are absolutely insufferable. We start the season 0-6, the tempo and negativity towards Whipple and the overall program increases progressively with each loss.

We come back after the break and go 3-1, with the one loss coming against the #16 team in the country and we hung with them. And yet, the bitching still continues.

I said to my friend after the Maine game that this game was alot like the game against Mississippi, except against Maine, we were Mississippi. If this were a Mississippi board, nearly every comment made about UMass would have fit with Mississippi last week.

Look, I get it, I'm not happy with the level play on this team and the lack of wins. But holy shit, we've won three games which is more than last year and in line with the pre-season expectations for this year. And there is the possibility that we could win at least one more although FIU is a much improved team this year. The problem is that we all see the potential in every game for our record to be so much better. Plenty of games that we just let slip away, I get it. But sweet jesus people, try to appreciate at least something from going 3-1 since the break.
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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by gosox22 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:02 pm

^ I think you call out a good perspective to have. And you have many fair points. I just thought the play-calling was absolutely abysmal. As NJ said earlier, it felt like they were trying to run the clock out when they were only up by 6 in the 4th quarter. Maine actually got the ball only down 6 around the middle of the 4th quarter, which I personally attributed to poor play calling. So I was frustrated beyond belief with that...and I only have half of a voice today because of it.

That said, I'm glad we're 3-1 since the break and I will stick to my opinion that Whipple stays if he accepts hiring an offensive coordinator. I'm a giant homer, so I'd love that guy to be Liam Coen. Alternatively, whomever is the most qualified will also be acceptable. :lol:

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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by Rolling Ridge » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:25 pm

Just about every person who posted something critical of the team also posted that they were happy with the win and that they had a good time at the game.

I'm not certain the Mississippi State analogy fully holds. This was a big game for UMass, UMass was not a big game for Mississippi State, who were coming off of Texas A&M and about to play Alabama. A lull for them is understandable, and they may have even been resting some starters a bit against us.

The concerns people have are the same issues that have plagued the team all season and in prior seasons; penalties, discipline, gameplan, etc. Our wins came in spite of these issues against weaker opponents, not because we somehow improved in those areas. It's nice to win, but any realistic fan knows that isn't a recipe for sustained success, especially against better opponents. Despite winning these three games, we have to get better, and be better consistently, especially in areas that are under our control.

I don't see how that's some kind of crime to say that, in addition to saying you're glad the team won and that you had a good time.

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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by MJatUM » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:27 pm

^ Thank you.

Had a great time at the game. The cold plus yelling - I was basically a mute all day yesterday as my throat KILLED.

Glad they got the win, was expecting to win a little easier but the game never really felt too close to me. Isabella lived behind the secondary all day, no idea why they weren't giving safety help over the top. A lot of the same mistakes we've all seen and I swear someone needs to unplug Whips headset in the last couple minutes of the first half. The freaking wildcat!? Really?

The team is fun to watch right now - looking forward to getting a good effort out of them in Provo. There is no game thread up yet but UMass is +4 and BYU has had a brutal season thus far and hopefully we can be the exclamation point on it. Not to mention next week they are going to Hawaii so hopefully they've checked out and we can put a quality (in name) win on the schedule.

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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by eldonabe » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:42 pm

Rolling Ridge wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:25 pm
I don't see how that's some kind of crime to say that, in addition to saying you're glad the team won and that you had a good time.
It's not a crime - it's just some being over sensitive and over protective of "their guy".



There are some Whip / DK parallels in a lot of the barbs being tossed around here. The most overt being that the their team won a game DESPITE the decisions of the head coach. I have seen that a few times and it does hold some water.

Another personal favorite to defend these guys is the upgrade in talent brought in. I have heard / seen that comment made in support for both guys too.

In the case of Whip - just because you are doing better doesn't mean you have not reached your ceiling. Better is better - we can all agree on that, but is that enough in a vacuum? Whip has improved the program since he came back, that is near impossible to argue; however, has he maxed out?

Maybe he is just a great concrete/foundation guy, but you need to bring in the finish carpenter now to pretty it up?

Jack will jump all over me now because he won an NC 20 years ago....... but that was 20 years ago.
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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by Jack » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:35 pm

Im not going to jump all over you. Your entitled to your opinion. the team is improved but its not enough for your standards. And instead of maintaining continuity in the program and going with steady improvement - you want to fire the coach every 3-4 yrs until your expectations are met. Got it. I just totally disagree with that approach and I think you need to wait until the season is over to make that type of evaluation. To me its an incredibly dunderheaded approach. As long as the team and the program is moving in the right direction I would keep rolling and keep looking to make improvements and enhancements at all times. This includes improving personnel, improving facilities, developing coaching talent and having a head coach succession plan. I would tamper down the fire the coach rhetoric b/c its dumb and ignores the fact that under Whip we have improved. If you want to argue that he's hit the ceiling I would totally disagree w/that assessment. I think the team has improved and will likely continue to be improved next season under Whip's leadership. 3-1 since the break is pretty good hopefully we can keep things rolling.

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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by Steve81 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:08 pm

The fact the guys believe in Whip and won 3 straight home games has but a grin on my face. :D

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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by eldonabe » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:01 am

Jack wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:35 pm
Im not going to jump all over you. Your entitled to your opinion. the team is improved but its not enough for your standards. And instead of maintaining continuity in the program and going with steady improvement - you want to fire the coach every 3-4 yrs until your expectations are met. Got it. I just totally disagree with that approach and I think you need to wait until the season is over to make that type of evaluation. To me its an incredibly dunderheaded approach. As long as the team and the program is moving in the right direction I would keep rolling and keep looking to make improvements and enhancements at all times. This includes improving personnel, improving facilities, developing coaching talent and having a head coach succession plan. I would tamper down the fire the coach rhetoric b/c its dumb and ignores the fact that under Whip we have improved. If you want to argue that he's hit the ceiling I would totally disagree w/that assessment. I think the team has improved and will likely continue to be improved next season under Whip's leadership. 3-1 since the break is pretty good hopefully we can keep things rolling.
I am not necessarily in the fire Whip camp yet. I think he needs help on the offensive play calling for sure though. Using my builder analogy - maybe Whip focuses on the foundation and he hires the finish carpenter guys around him. That may very well be the answer.

My point still stands that Whip continues to make head scratching in game decisions and that has to be addressed one way or another.
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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by m626t » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:25 pm

/\
agree. the question is where does the $ come from to hire top flight assistants to fill out the staff.
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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by Rolling Ridge » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:51 pm

m626t wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:25 pm
/\
agree. the question is where does the $ come from to hire top flight assistants to fill out the staff.
Where does money for anything in the the athletic department come from? It has to be allocated, or raised.

No one at the highest levels of the University think UMass football embodies excellence right now. If they want excellence (and they do), then they're going to have to pony up for it. Of course there has to be a plan and a justification for additional expenses that people buy into, and I'm not sure what effect parity would have on increased football expenditures. So it's not a totally straightforward thing.

But in the end, it's a question of investment and return. Ryan would have to make the case additional investment would help the team move forward, and the administration would have to buy into to that and find a way to fund it. Unless the football program can raise the funds themselves, there's no other path I can see. I assume it's not just a case of reallocating funds within the athletic department.

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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by cam9219 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:05 pm

Am I the only one that doesn't understand the infatuation with Liam Coen as our Offensive Coordinator in the near future?

It's not like Maine has exactly been lighting it up the past two seasons. I get the UMass connection and agree that we could use an OC to let Whip keep a better eye on the overall, but it just seems short sighted to have so many all-in on a guy with only two years of experience in a play calling role.
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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by McKinney » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:17 pm

cam9219 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:05 pm
Am I the only one that doesn't understand the infatuation with Liam Coen as our Offensive Coordinator in the near future?

It's not like Maine has exactly been lighting it up the past two seasons. I get the UMass connection and agree that we could use an OC to let Whip keep a better eye on the overall, but it just seems short sighted to have so many all-in on a guy with only two years of experience in a play calling role.
Yeah I don't get that either. If I was gonna be high on anyone, I'd have my eye on Matt Moore from Troy. I'm working on a model to measure the performance of FBS offensive lines, I'm not sure how accurate it is right now... but he appears to be running quite an improved line. He's also the co-offensive coordinator at Troy, and of course we know their head coach (former Minuteman Neal Brown).

I haven't done anything for OCs but I figure we probably got to get rid of Foley (his line has dropped in performance since he got here last season, now sitting at #125 by my measures). Two birds one stone.

Rolling Ridge wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:51 pm
But in the end, it's a question of investment and return. Ryan would have to make the case additional investment would help the team move forward, and the administration would have to buy into to that and find a way to fund it. Unless the football program can raise the funds themselves, there's no other path I can see. I assume it's not just a case of reallocating funds within the athletic department.
We're cash strapped, but not to the extent that people seem to express, I think the fact that we spend $8M on FBS football in a department with $42M is a shame. I understand we want well performing basketball, hockey, and all the rest of it, but have some perspective. The department is reasonably financially healthy for a G5 program (top third), shy of the bulk of AAC and top performing MW schools.
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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by Rolling Ridge » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:40 pm

cam9219 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:05 pm
Am I the only one that doesn't understand the infatuation with Liam Coen as our Offensive Coordinator in the near future?

It's not like Maine has exactly been lighting it up the past two seasons. I get the UMass connection and agree that we could use an OC to let Whip keep a better eye on the overall, but it just seems short sighted to have so many all-in on a guy with only two years of experience in a play calling role.
I agree completely. I said this, earlier in this thread...

"If they do a search for an OC, I wouldn't mind Coen being a candidate, but I don't think we should get too fixated on him. I'd like to see if Ryan could beat the bushes and get some really good candidates. If Coen emerges from a thorough search as the best person, I'd support it, but I don't want to default to him just because of his UMass connection. IMO, UMass needs to start casting a wider net."

"I'm not sure how much of a selling point running Whip's offense is. But assuming that's a factor, I can't believe there aren't others out there who can function effectively within that scheme. I'd like to see a wide search for the best person, and if Coen turns out to be it, great. But I don't want to just default to him because he's a UMass guy. This position is too important to do that."

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Re: Game # 10 Maine @ Fenway Park

Post by Rolling Ridge » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:46 pm

McKinney wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:17 pm
Yeah I don't get that either. If I was gonna be high on anyone, I'd have my eye on Matt Moore from Troy. I'm working on a model to measure the performance of FBS offensive lines, I'm not sure how accurate it is right now... but he appears to be running quite an improved line. He's also the co-offensive coordinator at Troy, and of course we know their head coach (former Minuteman Neal Brown).

I haven't done anything for OCs but I figure we probably got to get rid of Foley (his line has dropped in performance since he got here last season, now sitting at #125 by my measures). Two birds one stone.
Interesting. This is the kind of thinking and analysis we need to start getting the right kind of people. Keep us posted on how your model does.
McKinney wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:17 pm
We're cash strapped, but not to the extent that people seem to express, I think the fact that we spend $8M on FBS football in a department with $42M is a shame. I understand we want well performing basketball, hockey, and all the rest of it, but have some perspective. The department is reasonably financially healthy for a G5 program (top third), shy of the bulk of AAC and top performing MW schools.
You could well be right, and I hope that you are. I hear about being "cash strapped" from a lot of people, but no one associated with the athletic department. I really have no idea why we don't have an OC. If cash isn't an issue, then that should be no hurdle to getting someone in the offseason. If cash is an issue, then it will have to be dealt with, because we need one, and a good one; not just a body to put into that role.

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