Funding Football

Whip'ing the program back into shape.
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SignMan
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Funding Football

Post by SignMan » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:32 am

A week ago today, information I was unaware of was passed down to me.
The source is someone I have known for many years; a person I consider to be of impeccable standards.
Said person has no problem with me passing this information along here.

For the record, I vetted everything as best I could, which is generally quite thorough.

For the past many years, the UM Mens Cross Country team has maintained a roster of 19.
As I was told, this year's 2017-2018 roster has been cut to 11. This is correct.

Eight team roster spots were eliminated.
Money was cut.
Scholarship money was cut.

I was told that this was done to transfer the $ to Football, for football scholarships.

I was told that Athletics did not release any information about this, wanting to keep it quiet.

I checked this all out as best I could online, and found nothing to conflict with the info I was given.

The 2016-2017 roster of 19 included 5 Seniors...
Attrition: 5; 14 remaining
One Frosh on the 2017-2018 roster; 10 current roster spots for the 14 carry-overs from last year.
Of the 4 not carried over to 2017-2018, one is on the 2017-2018 Track roster.
Of the remaining three, two are listed in the Student Directory; one is gone.

Online, I found no information about this.

In the past, the University/Athletics has released similar moves like this.
Try not to become a man of success,but rather try to become a man of value
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MJatUM
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Re: Funding Football

Post by MJatUM » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:36 am

Not all that uncommon - but thank you for sharing. Something to keep an eye on going forward if UM football continues to be..... not great. How will it affect our non-revenue sports?

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Old Cage
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Re: Funding Football

Post by Old Cage » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:57 am

"The NCAA allows each division I track and field-cross country program 12.69 scholarships for men."

"You should be aware that the above figures also include, in most cases, track and field scholarships; both outdoor and indoor."

"coaches can “share” their allocation between a larger number of runners."

http://www.collegesportsscholarships.co ... ountry.htm

So, we only had 12.69 max to begin with, shared among an unknown number of runners, AND, apparently, guys who do track & field but not cross-country.
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Re: Funding Football

Post by JBUMass2011 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:42 pm

Interesting to hear that and it doesn't surprise me. Baseball and soccer only have2.5 scholarships. Bamford told me via tweet that soccer has 2.5 and 2 or 3 other A10 teams have 6-8 and rest are fully funded at 9.9. Now soccer and baseball have been like this for awhile. Not surprising that other sports are going down. Football better start being successful soon.

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Steve81
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Re: Funding Football

Post by Steve81 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:54 pm

For every FBS conference, football drives the bus. Glad to hear that FBS is being supported. Please tell me how many people watch x-cross country. Mind you, I was recruited to run x-country and I needed to go in the service for time to decide on a major. When I returned to UMass, decided that getting into the school of management was more important. Plus was banged up from being in the service was a factor.

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Re: Funding Football

Post by Floyd » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:08 am

You ran cross country? Like Forrest Gump? :D
Nothing worth having is easy to get

UMass87
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Re: Funding Football

Post by UMass87 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:00 am

Steve81 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:54 pm
.... Please tell me how many people watch x-cross country. ...
This is the crux of the problem. People have different ideas of what the purpose of intercollegiate athletics is. It's obvious to me that we have, as a society, decided that the purpose of intercollegiate athletics is to maximize the public profile of the university. There are times when that frustrates me - particularly as intercollegiate athletics looks and behaves increasingly as a for-profit venture. Mostly, though, I accept it for what it is and try to derive enjoyment as a fan. In this way, I reinforce the position of football and basketball in college athletics.

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LS71
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Re: Funding Football

Post by LS71 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:13 am

Distance running...x-country, marathons, etc. great for those participating but they are the absolute worst spectator sports! End of....
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Re: Funding Football

Post by lane one » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:28 pm

To be fair to running, each year a lot more people watch the Boston Marathon than UMass football games, so it might not be the absolute worst spectator sport.

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Re: Funding Football

Post by UMass87 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:26 pm

lane one wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:28 pm
To be fair to running, each year a lot more people watch the Boston Marathon than UMass football games, so it might not be the absolute worst spectator sport.
Clearly you never had a kid who ran cross country. Sorry, you're wrong.

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MJatUM
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Re: Funding Football

Post by MJatUM » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:22 am

lane one wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:28 pm
To be fair to running, each year a lot more people watch the Boston Marathon than UMass football games, so it might not be the absolute worst spectator sport.
OK and a lot more people watch the Super Bowl than the Boston Marathon... GTFOH comparing one of the biggest running events in the WORLD to UMass Football as a justification of running as a spectator "sport."

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econalum
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Re: Funding Football

Post by econalum » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:56 pm

There is a systematic collapsing of $$ from the 'minor sports' into the football 'vortex' across the country, especially Men's sports. Where are wrestling, baseball, gymnastics, rowing, among many others at many schools? Track is also often a casualty.

Several years ago, a neighborhood kid, a sprinter, got a partial to Delaware. They cancelled the Track program there in his first year, via email, for crying out loud. He was able to xfer to William and Mary.

Sports are not about transparency. And only loud voices, with $$, will be heeded.

Only the wealthiest schools (IVY + MIT), Service academies, and the Top 50 to 60 FBS which make profit, yield a fuller portfolio teams of minor sports of any consequence. Note how a handful of schools from SEC, Pac10 and ACC dominate track & field.
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Steve81
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Re: Funding Football

Post by Steve81 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:31 pm

SignMan wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:32 am
A week ago today, information I was unaware of was passed down to me.
The source is someone I have known for many years; a person I consider to be of impeccable standards.
Said person has no problem with me passing this information along here.

For the record, I vetted everything as best I could, which is generally quite thorough.

For the past many years, the UM Mens Cross Country team has maintained a roster of 19.
As I was told, this year's 2017-2018 roster has been cut to 11. This is correct.

Eight team roster spots were eliminated.
Money was cut.
Scholarship money was cut.

I was told that this was done to transfer the $ to Football, for football scholarships.

I was told that Athletics did not release any information about this, wanting to keep it quiet.

I checked this all out as best I could online, and found nothing to conflict with the info I was given.

The 2016-2017 roster of 19 included 5 Seniors...
Attrition: 5; 14 remaining
One Frosh on the 2017-2018 roster; 10 current roster spots for the 14 carry-overs from last year.
Of the 4 not carried over to 2017-2018, one is on the 2017-2018 Track roster.
Of the remaining three, two are listed in the Student Directory; one is gone.

Online, I found no information about this.

In the past, the University/Athletics has released similar moves like this.
You could have said this was a stop gap to make up for basketball instead of football. Was the person that said it was to make up for football a basketball booster or on the basketball side of the ledger?

Posted belwo in the Football 2020 thread on another board.

Niles Football will always lose money and the below is only in my opinion basketball is not currently making money, I don't want to torpedo basketball and think in the next 3-8 years we should have a lot of answers. The key is in the middle run if we are torpedoing football recruiting and under funding the program. Note the first year and last year the MAC teams got major bowl distribution and their media contact is for all sports and roughly equals the combined A10 plus NCAA credits, which will go down as Xavier, Temple, Butler credits roll off.

I feel good about our chances for the American, but everyone, including UMass should have a plan B. My personal opinion is the A10 will get raided again around the Big East new contract in 2025. The P5 are consolidating power and basketball wise, please count the number of ESPN games the A10 has for conference games this year.

Don't have the info and late to be precise but using round numbers for income of 4k per game and 15 average ticket price between full, value, group, and students times 16 games comes in:

960k ticket sales and UMass Dining not athletics gets the concessions.
357k for 1/14 of 5 Mill A10 media deal
423k roughly from uneven NCAA distribution
200k licensing this is a guess
-------
1.94 Mill income rough educated guess

950k DK base salary
350k Assistance guessing
520 tiution room 40k x 13
20.8 COA 1.6k x 13
800k Champion Center say 15M times 1.6 interest factor divided by 30 yrs
---------
2.64 Million and there is nothing for the Mullins our champion center maintenance workers or dedicated trainers and sports medicine staff.
Nor is there anything for team travel and recruiting expenses, not to mention coach McCall $750k salary.

IMHO Basketball is not making money but the Court Club significantly reduces the loses in basketball.
Remember we are paying for two head coaches for the next two years.

In football a donor stepped up and paid for Molnar and assistance severance and unexpected revenue from football paid for the hockey and women's basketball head coaches severance.

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