Game 6: vs Ohio

Whip'ing the program back into shape.
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LS71
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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by LS71 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:21 am

MJatUM wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:27 am
^ I mean with all due respect to Yom Kippur you can't expect them to move a football game from the normal day it is played every week of every year. I completely understand being upset that the HOF event fell on it since that is a pretty loosely scheduled event.
Agree 100%.

I have no reason to expect the game not be be scheduled.

But there was no reason that the HOF event had to take place on that day.

I accept Ryan's apology and fully expect that he'll keep his word.
"Win without boasting, lose without crying." -- Julius Erving

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by Jack » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:35 am

TheInsider wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:05 pm
They have a nice 2 week break.. They should be well rested for Georgia southern. They might be worse than Maine. They are terrible against the pass.. if they beat us, whip should be fired before he even reaches the champions center.

Comments like these are misguided and counterproductive. Whipple is not getting fired during the season nor does he deserve to be fired at all. Ryan Bamford is not a moron and firing a Coach during a transition to FBS is absolutely moronic and totally detrimental to the Program. It seems like some fans truly do not understand the background of the program and how improved the program has become since Mark Whipple took over (again).

First of all in 1998 Coach Whipple inherited a bottom feeding CAA program and turned UMASS into a National Championship team. Our only National Championship football team ever. When Coach Whipple left UMass for the NFL - he left an excellent AA program under the leadership of Don Brown who continued the success. When Coach Whipple returned 10 yrs later and took over this program from Charly Molnar he inherited a disaster. So on that basis alone - screaming about firing Coach Whipple during the season is truly disrespectful in light of all he has done for the University. It is also just plum ignorant on several levels. Lets try to be better than that.

Newsflash: When Brown left for Maryland - McCutcheon turned the program over to Morris who quickly destroyed it - McCutcheon had no plan (of course) - and the program was not poised to upgrade. Consequently 2012/13 under Molnar were a disorganized dumpster fire. Molnar handed Whip a team that was ranked 193rd by Sagarin - just let that sink in. Translation: Whipple didn't inherit a FCS program, he inherited a bad AA team. Essentially this means that this is the 4th season of transitioning to FCS.

The program is much improved since Coach Whipple took over in 2014. Current Sagarin ranking is 150. Whipple has brought the 2 best recruiting classes ever and early on Whipple's 2018 class is looking to be the best ever featuring legit 3 star players in McClay (TN) and Osagiede (TX) - wave goodbye to them if we stupidly fire the Coach. The stupidest thing this program could do would be to disrupt the consistently improved recruiting we have had under Whipple - that is literally the future improvement of the program right there. The program needs continuity and continuous improvement not disruption and going backwards as is advocated by the "fire the coach" pitchfork crowd.

Now I'm a lifelong season ticket holder - I get where the frustration is coming from - its very frustrating losing close games BUT we're in the games which is a lot better than a few years back when we were regularly getting blown out. Of course we need to continue to improve - e.g. eliminate stupid mistakes and if we don't get a kicking game I think I'm going to jump off the back of Section 16.... but this is a young team that doesn't quit, fights hard and has been improving week to week during this season (we'll lose one offensive starter (brennemen) this season). They haven't quit on us and We sure as hell can't quit on them and we can't quit on Coach Whipple.

You can especially see the improvement in our OL play they've gone from being lousy in game 1 against Hawaii to becoming halfway decent against Tennessee and Ohio. I think these guys will steadily improve throughout the season and they will grow into a solid pass blocking and run blocking unit - which we have not had in years - arguably since Don Brown. Once that happens everything will function much more smoothly. We are already starting to see it.

So to recap - Whipple/Brown were excellent - championship caliber football. Then McCutcheon gave us Kevin Morris followed by Charly Molnar which was a complete Fubar Dumpster Fire. That is exactly what Coach Whipple walked into in 2014. He's put out the fire and started building a real FCS program. Under Whipple's leadership we've gone from being a MAC doormat to being MAC competitive....from being a joke to being competitive. Whether the misguided pitchfork mob appreciates it or not - thats significant progress under Coach Whipple. The smart UMass fans on this Board need to understand this before they run down to the AD's office with pitchforks and torches.

Lastly this season is not even halfway over. We have some great games on the schedule and Im really looking forward to Georgia Southern and Appy State back to back at McGuirk!! The team is vastly improved. We are going to turn the corner - we are going to win games, we are going to pull off that upset win - we have knocked on that door against Tennessee - soon we are gonna kick that door down. And I for one have faith that Coach Whipple is the Coach who is going to lead us there - just like he led us out of the CAA basement to a National Championship in 1998. I firmly believe that the Program is in good hands. The recent recruiting classes are proof that we are improving each year and the wins will come and that better days are ahead for UMass Football.

So We need to stop with the misguided nonsense about firing the HC. Its not classy, its not productive and it demonstrates a very poor understanding of where the program is coming from under the McCutcheon/Morris/Molnar fiasco, where we are headed and how much improved we are under Bamford/Whipple as a program w/a solid future of continuous improvement. We need to support our players, the program and the University - the wins are coming and better days are ahead for Mass !!! Keep the Faith Guys.

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by kdogg8173 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:22 pm

Molnar was a disaster? That's funny jack, in this thread you're singing his praises, chastising anyone who thought he should be fired.

http://www.umasshoops.com/newboard/view ... 16#p344716

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by Jack » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:37 pm

Yes Kdogg .... Mcutcheon/Morris/Molnar was a disastrous triumvirate - is that news to you? Seriously? LOL. Wake up and smell the coffee Kdogg. IF you notice Kdogg I am supporting the program and not supporting a merry go round of firing coaches which is counterproductive to developing continuity in the program. Is that really difficult for you to comprehend???? :roll:

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by rayers » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:22 pm

One downside of our situation is that some of the players are convinced Whip will be gone at the end of the year. A parent of a current player told me this. He also said the players really like and respect Whip. Having all this speculation hang over program is not good and may end up making everything worse. Personally, I am hoping Bam gives some indication of Whip being valued and secure as the coach for next year and more. I know many disagree with this but I think we are getting better and deeper.

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by Berkman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:24 pm

On offense the only senior is the tight end Breneman. So with the help of some red shirt offensive players and another year with the new defensive coach we should be a lot better. In the mean time just maybe we can win a couple of games. The two weeks off should get some of our players that have been nursing injuries healed up a bit.

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by rsox1221 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:39 pm

Jack wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:35 am
Whipple has brought the 2 best recruiting classes ever and early on Whipple's 2018 class is looking to be the best ever featuring legit 3 star players in McClay (TN) and Osagiede (TX) - wave goodbye to them if we stupidly fire the Coach. The stupidest thing this program could do would be to disrupt the consistently improved recruiting we have had under Whipple - that is literally the future improvement of the program right there. The program needs continuity and continuous improvement not disruption and going backwards as is advocated by the "fire the coach" pitchfork crowd.
I respect you have faith in Whipple, and I'm not going to address the majority of your post, only this portion.

2016 was the best class UMass brought in, which was under Whipple, and he and his staff deserve credit for that. 2017 was not as highly-ranked, but did have some talent, and it has potential. Much of that potential has not been seen yet however.

The notion that 2018 "is looking to be the best ever" however is incorrect. The staff like the players they have committed so far, but the lack of on-field success is hindering the recruiting process, there is no way to sugarcoat that. In addition, while McClay is talented, he is a long shot at best to qualify, which means you shouldn't count on him being a member of the class at this stage.

What UMass needs more than anything is wins. They also cannot keep waiting until next year to get them. Whipple took over an complete mess, that is true. The internal culture of the program has improved, which was absolutely necessary. The results however have not, and those are also absolutely necessary.

In-season coaching changes are very rare in CFB, and if UMass were going to initiate one, it almost certainly would have come at the beginning of this long break. They did not, which means that Whipple is likely here for the rest of this season. But don't think for a second that if this team loses to Georgia Southern on Homecoming with three weeks to prepare, who will also likely be winless and are not good, or if they lose to an FCS program like Maine for the second time in 6 FBS seasons (at Fenway Park to boot) that Whipple may not be let go.

Again, I respect that you believe in Whipple, but you also can't whitewash that there are legitimate concerns with this program in Whipple's now 4th season at the helm. The fact that we still cannot kick a field goal consistently is unacceptable. UMass' loss to Coastal Carolina earlier this year, where they were pushed around on top of losing to a team in their first-ever FBS game, is unacceptable. The fact that UMass is 0-6 this season (to this point) is unacceptable.

Taking one step forward only to take two steps back is never going to accomplish anything for the University of Massachusetts. You mention that Ryan Bamford is not a moron, and I agree. He knows very well what it takes to field a successful FBS program, and that his future personal success is tied directly to the UMass football program turning around and becoming a quality, relevant team. He also did not hire Mark Whipple, and he would have no trouble at all replacing him as soon as this season is over if he felt that it was the correct move for the program's sake.

I can't say what will happen once this season ends, but I would urge you to not allow a great season at a lower level 20 years ago to exert too much influence over your thinking. FBS football is a business, and hiring old friends just because they were great two decades ago isn't the most successful way to run a business.

For now, UMass' focus has to be on Georgia Southern, a legitimate chance to get a win. They have an eternity to prepare for this game, and if they lose to a bad team when they've had that much prep time, the calls for change will not get quieter.

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by minutefanjsf » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:29 pm

Whip has changed the culture. The players respect him. But he isn't winning. Winning cures everything. It's been four years of changing culture. He is hired to win not just change the culture. There are many players also who feel marginalized by Whip as well. I assume Whip is done after this year. I wished it had worked. He deserves credit for putting out the dumpster fire that raged for years under Morris and Molnar, but that is it. He hasn't recruited a full team yet in four years. He laments too many things publicly that make him look like a pompous out of touch ass at best frequently. He found a way to resurrect hope. But, those hopes are fading or are nonexistent in year four.

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by kdogg8173 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:55 pm

Jack wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:37 pm
Yes Kdogg .... Mcutcheon/Morris/Molnar was a disastrous triumvirate - is that news to you? Seriously? LOL. Wake up and smell the coffee Kdogg. IF you notice Kdogg I am supporting the program and not supporting a merry go round of firing coaches which is counterproductive to developing continuity in the program. Is that really difficult for you to comprehend???? :roll:
Why would it be news to me? Unlike you I thought Molnar sucked. It's laughable how wrong you were in that thread.

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by Jack » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:15 pm

kdogg8173 wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:55 pm
Jack wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:37 pm
Yes Kdogg .... Mcutcheon/Morris/Molnar was a disastrous triumvirate - is that news to you? Seriously? LOL. Wake up and smell the coffee Kdogg. IF you notice Kdogg I am supporting the program and not supporting a merry go round of firing coaches which is counterproductive to developing continuity in the program. Is that really difficult for you to comprehend???? :roll:
Why would it be news to me? Unlike you I thought Molnar sucked. It's laughable how wrong you were in that thread.

It would be news to you since you're pathetically incapable of basic reading comprehension....which is quite laughable.

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by stevemaz » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:11 am

Honestly, UMass has had a very easy schedule and the fact that the recored isn't at least 3-3 right now points blame to the head coach. You cannot run from the results. Now if the team goes 4-2 in the second half you then may have at least an argument to keep the coach. I do think the program is better off than it was 4 years ago but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be in an even better situation. If Whip made sure the team had quality special teams and hired and OC years ago, I suspect the results would have been better. The program has blown a huge opportunity this season by not taken advantage of it's weak schedule and gotten off to a 4-0 start, which they would have if the HC had done a good job. UMass could have been one of the first half of the season's nice stories instead of a laughing stalk.

The second half of the season should see wins vs Ga So, Maine, and FIU and close games with App State and BYU. I firmly believe that this could have ended up a 8-4/9-3 season based on all of our opponents who are worse than projected.

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by eldonabe » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:32 am

stevemaz wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:11 am
The second half of the season should see wins vs Ga So, Maine, and FIU and close games with App State and BYU. I firmly believe that this could have ended up a 8-4/9-3 season based on all of our opponents who are worse than projected.
Dude - really? Nobody could or should firmly believe a win of any kind is coming - including Maine. Now the law of averages is certainly in the favor of Umass. As bad as this train wreck has been they have not yet dropped a donut in the win column for a season yet at least.

When the offense plays good, the defense doesn't show up. When the defense plays well, the offense struggles. The special teams are fucking terrible. Even an improvement to mediocre special teams probably adds 5-8 wins to the program (if not more). The coach is not dumb he has to see this? If he has in fact tried to fix it - there is absolutely no evidence of it as it would appear the has only thrown gas on a fire.

The double bye is meaningless to me - they had an entire fucking summer to prepare for a team they "could" have beaten and blew it - shockingly because of bad special teams and an absurd play calling down the stretch. They played not to lose that game - THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE! ... and they need to play like that - they never have and with Whip at the helm they never will.
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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by gosox22 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:59 am

After the absolutely brutal back to back hires of Morris and Molnar, UMass could have hired IV to be the coach and been much better off. Obviously the team is much improved from those days. But they still can't win. I'm sorry, but if we go 0-12 and never lose a game by more than 10 points, it's still 0-12. They have no idea how to win football games, and that falls directly on the head coach. Bizarre play calling and not caring one bit about special teams are things that stick out to me. We all love Whip for his first stint here, but that cannot factor in to whether to keep him now. They are 0-6 and have lost to bad football teams. The end result on the field is measured in wins and losses, and by that measure Whipple is sitting on the hottest of hot seats.

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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:21 am

gosox22 wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:59 am
After the absolutely brutal back to back hires of Morris and Molnar, UMass could have hired IV to be the coach and been much better off.
Fact, not opinion.
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Re: Game 6: vs Ohio

Post by Steve81 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:41 pm

Love UMass Football and fully support it, but please throw us a bone with a win. Not sure how many of the injured players will be well healed for Oct 21st. Anyone hearing anything.

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