Game 3: ODU

Whip'ing the program back into shape.
eldonabe
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by eldonabe » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:00 am

Bay Area UMie wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:47 am
econalum wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:54 pm
UMass87 wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:09 pm
80% of a small number is still a small number.
23 people from one major - economics - can only be viewed as descriptive, not definitive, and not representative of the entire undergrad. population of UM. We'll see what we hear. FWIW. But at least I am in direct contact with the 'average undergrad in the classroom' in one major.

Econ
Your laughable comments reveal your total ignorance of marketing research practices, random sampling methods, the field of inferential statistics and the conceptual meaning of ”statistical significance”. The technique and results you amateurishly refer to as “descriptive” are known in the statistical world as “qualitative” methods and qualitative findings (if the research is implemented properly) are at best “directional” in nature (without probabilistic uncertainty levels/confidence intervals assigned to them).

In your case, the qualitative methodology including sample selection is total rubbish (you haven’t applied random recruiting methods to ensure your sample is in fact a sub-population of “average” UMass students as you claim, you are dedicating (I am guessing) an inadequate 15-20 minutes to probe the athletic issues, I can go on and on how ridiculous your proposal and methods are). Only a charlatan or incompetent (in your case I believe you are both) would come on this board and try to convince people that you have some meaningful insights to share after a brief session with a self-selected group of students. Bottom line, don’t waste your time or readers precious time posting your ridiculous conclusions on this board-in the research world (private industry and academic) meaningless data/results is referred to as “noise” in your case it is one step lower ie “total rubbish”.

Last week you fired the first shot claiming I was “an embarrassment to UMass”. Well, coming right back at ya with some of your own snide, nasty medicine-you tell me who the embarrassment is now?

My apologies to the 90% of posters who come on this board everyday with solid facts, well-reasoned arguments and a deep passion for UMass Athletics. I consider it a pleasure and enjoy reading your posts. Unfortunately, there are 5 or 6 posters in this community who get personal, have a snide edge to their posts and don’t understand the concept of equanimity. This jerk-off (yes,this violates the code of equanimity but I was born and brought up in South Boston and was taught to come back hard after someone threw the first punch) is one of them.

Jesus man - did you miss your High Tea at the Country Club yesterday? You sound like Stephen A-hole Smith dropping your bloviation on us all. Relax man. Nobody is calling this "study" the be all end all answer to the problems.

The guy happens to have an audience, does that group represent anything else but themselves - probably not and nobody realistically claims it to do that, but it may still be interesting to hear what this one, non-scientific group has to say anyways?

Somewhere in between "win some fucking games" and " the coach needs to address X Y Z to put a better product on the field" is where most of us sit on this board.

You are a Whipple Guy - we get it. The bottom line is that there are a lot of problems from players, to facilities, to coaching, to an apathetic student body. SOMETHING has to change to start moving in the right direction.
In Matt McCall I trust!

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Swampy
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by Swampy » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:52 am

eldonabe wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:00 am
A LOT has to change to start moving in the right direction.
Fixed that for you. :wink:

Calmass9
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by Calmass9 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:59 am

My buddies and I purchased a spot on Stadium Drive with our season tickets and we basically witnessed the mass exodus of students come right by our tailgating spot. When I went to the bathroom there were about 8 male students in line and I asked them what was going on. 1) They were livid that they were being kicked out that early. 2) None of them had any intentions to go to the game anyway. 3) I asked if the team was 2-0, would they go to the game...All said they would have and all of them knew who UMass lost to in the previous 2 games. Very small sample but to say the student body isn't aware of the general happenings around the team is ignorant. Winning cures all.

eldonabe
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by eldonabe » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:46 am

Calmass9 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:59 am
My buddies and I purchased a spot on Stadium Drive with our season tickets and we basically witnessed the mass exodus of students come right by our tailgating spot. When I went to the bathroom there were about 8 male students in line and I asked them what was going on. 1) They were livid that they were being kicked out that early. 2) None of them had any intentions to go to the game anyway. 3) I asked if the team was 2-0, would they go to the game...All said they would have and all of them knew who UMass lost to in the previous 2 games. Very small sample but to say the student body isn't aware of the general happenings around the team is ignorant. Winning cures all.
Sorry - your "study" is invalid, thus meaningless - right Stephen A?.

You assessment - winning cures all, is also [therefore] not backed by any realistic statistical analysis :roll:
In Matt McCall I trust!

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Quann
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by Quann » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:53 pm

We seem to be doing everything wrong involving the football program from tailgating rules to on the field performance. It's a sad state at this point.

KahunaK
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by KahunaK » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:59 pm

Attended the game on Saturday and was very excited about a possible win. Here are some thoughts from the game.

1) Isabella is a lot faster than I or ODU thought. Their secondary was stunned as he just kept running away from him.
2) Whipple called two consecutive draws on 2nd and 19 and 3rd and 19. WTF
3) That was the most boring college football game I ever attended. I wanted to walk out with the students. You can blame them all you want but until UMASS puts a decent team on the field, no one is showing up. It was a perfect day for football. Non students did not show up either.
4) The UMASS defense was spectacular on the goal line stand. Their running back had some Blount abilities but the line stopped him. I will take this as a hopeful omen for improved defensive line play.
5) Offensive play calling was lackluster and unimaginative.
6) ODU's defensive line set the edge real well and Ford kept scrambling into sacks. He is not fast enough to get around the edge.

I'm afraid that UMASS might rack up an 0fer this year. Hope Maine sucks.

Also- as I went up to purchase a ticket for the game, a gentleman approached me and asked if I needed a single ticket and gave it to me. Nice guy (and I hope he is a reader of this board). I will be making a contribution to the football team in his name- aka Sec 16, Row H Seat 19!

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econalum
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by econalum » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:15 am

econalum wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:32 pm
78 wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:01 pm
There is no way in hell there were 3,000 students at the game.

We'll see what I find out tomorrow - my guess on their reasons: 'I work to pay for school', 'too far' to walk, 'went home to visit', 'studying when library is uncrowded', and 'football is not a thing' at UMASS. My 'focus group' of 23 will yield some thoughts. Directional, not definitive.

I'll report what I hear, unedited.
[/quote

Perhaps my 'focus group' was too small, near graduation, more professionally inclined but their weekends are mostly extra work for spending $$, some wonderful clubs and non-profit fund raising (one UMASS group has raised $150k for the children's wing at Springfield hospital complex). Sports, except intra-murals, not on the list.

I do point to how even BC/ND game is no longer a 'thing' - Shaugnessey column today:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/colle ... story.html
Feeling entitled is JUST a feeling...

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Steve81
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by Steve81 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:46 pm

econalum wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:15 am
econalum wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:32 pm
78 wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:01 pm
There is no way in hell there were 3,000 students at the game.

We'll see what I find out tomorrow - my guess on their reasons: 'I work to pay for school', 'too far' to walk, 'went home to visit', 'studying when library is uncrowded', and 'football is not a thing' at UMASS. My 'focus group' of 23 will yield some thoughts. Directional, not definitive.

I'll report what I hear, unedited.
[/quote

Perhaps my 'focus group' was too small, near graduation, more professionally inclined but their weekends are mostly extra work for spending $$, some wonderful clubs and non-profit fund raising (one UMASS group has raised $150k for the children's wing at Springfield hospital complex). Sports, except intra-murals, not on the list.

I do point to how even BC/ND game is no longer a 'thing' - Shaugnessey column today:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/colle ... story.html
Yup, have a program that sucks for years and people stop caring. What a news flash.

DPBOS
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by DPBOS » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:12 pm

Calmass9 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:59 am
When I went to the bathroom there were about 8 male students in line and I asked them what was going on. 1) They were livid that they were being kicked out that early. 2) None of them had any intentions to go to the game anyway. 3) I asked if the team was 2-0, would they go to the game...All said they would have and all of them knew who UMass lost to in the previous 2 games.
Not that 7-7 Hawaii was all that great in 2016, but they still won a bowl game and 4 losses were at the hands of Michigan, Cal, Arizona and Boise State. Some students and other fans would have liked the record to be 2-0 going into ODU, but it's still surprising some people leaped to assumptions on beating Hawaii. On the other hand, hopes for beating Coastal Carolina and ODU were more reasonable and the results more disappointing.

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DearOleUMass
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by DearOleUMass » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:23 pm

DPBOS wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:12 pm
Calmass9 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:59 am
When I went to the bathroom there were about 8 male students in line and I asked them what was going on. 1) They were livid that they were being kicked out that early. 2) None of them had any intentions to go to the game anyway. 3) I asked if the team was 2-0, would they go to the game...All said they would have and all of them knew who UMass lost to in the previous 2 games.
Not that 7-7 Hawaii was all that great in 2016, but they still won a bowl game and 4 losses were at the hands of Michigan, Cal, Arizona and Boise State. Some students and other fans would have liked the record to be 2-0 going into ODU, but it's still surprising some people leaped to assumptions on beating Hawaii. On the other hand, hopes for beating Coastal Carolina and ODU were more reasonable and the results more disappointing.
I don't think most people assumed we would beat Hawaii. Most people are simply upset with how we lost that game. We gave the game away as far as I'm concerned.

eldonabe
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by eldonabe » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:46 am

DearOleUMass wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:23 pm


I don't think most people assumed we would beat Hawaii. Most people are simply upset with how we lost that game. We gave the game away as far as I'm concerned.
Yes this.

Going into the season Hawaii was probably the least winnable of the 1st 3 games on paper, post Mortem however, they were in the best position to win that game, and they should have.......
In Matt McCall I trust!

DPBOS
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by DPBOS » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:34 am

DearOleUMass wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:23 pm
I don't think most people assumed we would beat Hawaii. Most people are simply upset with how we lost that game. We gave the game away as far as I'm concerned.
Exactly, as mentioned "... it's still surprising some people leaped to assumptions on beating Hawaii." For example, the small sample of students.

Bay Area UMie
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by Bay Area UMie » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:10 am

UMass02 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:11 am
Bay Area's statements about statistics and sampling are quite correct.
Thank you for the validation.

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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by Bay Area UMie » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:26 am

eldonabe wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:00 am
Bay Area UMie wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:47 am
econalum wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:54 pm


23 people from one major - economics - can only be viewed as descriptive, not definitive, and not representative of the entire undergrad. population of UM. We'll see what we hear. FWIW. But at least I am in direct contact with the 'average undergrad in the classroom' in one major.

Econ
Your laughable comments reveal your total ignorance of marketing research practices, random sampling methods, the field of inferential statistics and the conceptual meaning of ”statistical significance”. The technique and results you amateurishly refer to as “descriptive” are known in the statistical world as “qualitative” methods and qualitative findings (if the research is implemented properly) are at best “directional” in nature (without probabilistic uncertainty levels/confidence intervals assigned to them).

In your case, the qualitative methodology including sample selection is total rubbish (you haven’t applied random recruiting methods to ensure your sample is in fact a sub-population of “average” UMass students as you claim, you are dedicating (I am guessing) an inadequate 15-20 minutes to probe the athletic issues, I can go on and on how ridiculous your proposal and methods are). Only a charlatan or incompetent (in your case I believe you are both) would come on this board and try to convince people that you have some meaningful insights to share after a brief session with a self-selected group of students. Bottom line, don’t waste your time or readers precious time posting your ridiculous conclusions on this board-in the research world (private industry and academic) meaningless data/results is referred to as “noise” in your case it is one step lower ie “total rubbish”.

Last week you fired the first shot claiming I was “an embarrassment to UMass”. Well, coming right back at ya with some of your own snide, nasty medicine-you tell me who the embarrassment is now?

My apologies to the 90% of posters who come on this board everyday with solid facts, well-reasoned arguments and a deep passion for UMass Athletics. I consider it a pleasure and enjoy reading your posts. Unfortunately, there are 5 or 6 posters in this community who get personal, have a snide edge to their posts and don’t understand the concept of equanimity. This jerk-off (yes,this violates the code of equanimity but I was born and brought up in South Boston and was taught to come back hard after someone threw the first punch) is one of them.

Jesus man - did you miss your High Tea at the Country Club yesterday? You sound like Stephen A-hole Smith dropping your bloviation on us all. Relax man. Nobody is calling this "study" the be all end all answer to the problems.

The guy happens to have an audience, does that group represent anything else but themselves - probably not and nobody realistically claims it to do that, but it may still be interesting to hear what this one, non-scientific group has to say anyways?

Somewhere in between "win some fucking games" and " the coach needs to address X Y Z to put a better product on the field" is where most of us sit on this board.

You are a Whipple Guy - we get it. The bottom line is that there are a lot of problems from players, to facilities, to coaching, to an apathetic student body. SOMETHING has to change to start moving in the right direction.
My rebuttal to EconFraud was not, as you suggest, an attempt to defend Coach Whipple (candidly, I am very puzzled how you interpreted it as such).

Yes, my post was most definitely a digression from discussing UMass athletics. I responded to the guy because; I felt compelled to defend my personal integrity (he initially claimed in a public forum that I “was an embarrassment to UMass”) and as a professional practitioner I wanted to expose someone who by default was trying to pass himself off as some credentialed Researcher or Data Scientist which I (someone who has worked in the fields of Comp. Sci. and Data Science in academic environments and in private industry for almost 30 years) obviously took very strong exception to.

Would I have responded to his post so aggressively if he hadn’t attempted to label me an “embarrassment to UMass”? Obviously not, but he viciously spouted-off the first baseless allegation and I responded with some undeniable truths and industry best practices/protocols that he wisely hasn’t tried to refute (interestingly, he has gone dark for 2.5 days and I will let the silence speak for itself).

This is the end of this exchange (my apologies once again to a majority of the posters for my digression). Let’s move on to more important UMass related matters-Go UMass!

On another note, nice to see UMass ranked #29 in the latest US News Public Institutional rankings. Here’s hoping the administration can achieve a well-deserved (or at least desired) top 20 rating in the coming years right next to the likes of UT Austin, that over-rated place in Storrs and The Ohio State University.

eldonabe
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Re: Game 3: ODU

Post by eldonabe » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:54 am

UMie - you have defended Whip previously - not necessarily in that specific rebuttal, but you have. Your sensitivity to that could have been misconstrued as taking more exception to Whip bashing.

He got under your skin - that is fine, but rambling off with a lot of phraseology that goes over most people's head just sounds pompous and arrogant. I get your point, forget it let's move on.

Umass needs to find the win column - that is what all of us need to focus on.
In Matt McCall I trust!

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