Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Whip'ing the program back into shape.
wmmmfan
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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by wmmmfan » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:45 pm

This ship has been floundering since Don Brown left UMass, the next two poor hires brought this program to its knees. I am not a Whipple apologist but what he inherited was.....let's just say a mess. Whip's staff has done a solid job bringing in FBS level talent and the program is moving in the right direction. Trust me I was not pleased with the loss last night but this team has to learn how to play with a lead and to win at the highest level of college football. My expectations for this season are 4-5 wins and to be competitive in all games, so far they are meeting those expectations.

Special teams and several big plays against the defense cost the game last night but it's all fixable, as long as this team is better at the end of the season than last night I will be happy.

Unfortunately we didn't make the move when Whip was here the first time or while DB was here but this is what we have and it isn't going to change anytime soon. I believe Whip will get this program back to respectability but it is not going to be like the good old days right now. Hang tough, we will get better.

One last thing and take it for what it is worth. I happened to be sitting near some what I believe were recruits last night and there were a some fans yelling to Whipple some .......unpleasant things. They were pretty turned off by it, one kid even commented about the negativity. Just an FYI, I believe you pay your money and as long as your not swearing all is fair but you might want to look around and see if there are people with dangling passes hanging from their neck.

Keep the faith!

DPBOS
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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by DPBOS » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:32 pm

AlPatino wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:56 am
I will always root for UMass but I am taking the Illinois approach, the "Show Me State" of mind.
So sad, even Missouri's now forced to be peeved with the Minutemen. Meanwhile, Illinois may be focused on their own challenges. ;)

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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by 78 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:44 pm

Jack wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:08 pm
Mark Whipple is a good coach. The program has steadily improved since he arrived. Do some of you people have amnesia as to what he inherited from charly molnar ?? the playcallling in Q4 was suspect. But the team played pretty well and they should have won. The chicken little sky is falling crowd needs to chill out.
How many games has this team "should Have" won under Whipple? That's the biggest problem I have, the constant mistakes, lack of discipline and sometimes inexplicable play calling. They all lead to should have won final scores. They were 2-22 under the used car salesman, and Whipple is 8-29, so there is definitely improvement. Just how many years does a coach need to start producing wins in FBS, as this is year 4 for Whip?

I guess one of the good things to take out of this game is all the attention for the unique last play we ran when we needed a score. :D
Bamford has erased McCutcheon

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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by Bay Area UMie » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:07 am

Sheck wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:01 pm
NilesGold wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:40 am
Marshmont_63 wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:31 pm
The most preventable problem tonight was the coaching decision with four or five minutes left in the game. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME. YOU DON'T PLAY NOT TO LOSE. I get that they wanted to run time off the clock, but you knew exactly what was going to happen when they fully committed to that strategy. Honestly, Whipple needs to be fired. I know most people don't want to hear that, but this team has shown absolutely no ability to win close (one possession) games. The play-calling is infuriating. Overall, it's just a massive letdown every game. Every year, I deceive myself by thinking something is going to change. And in 5 years, nothing has changed.
The current situation feels a lot like the situation basketball was in last year.

Whipple has to go or you might as well just shut the whole damn football program down if this is truly the best we can hope for.
Feels like it's Whip or bust. Can't see anyone better being interested in coming here. No conference affiliation, worst stadium situation in FBS, and low pay compared to other FBS programs. Just don't see much hope for the future at this point.
Let’s add to the list of constraints/challenging conditions that we are located in New England not exactly a fertile area for elite or even average high school football talent- despite accounting for 4.8% of the total US pop the six NE states only produce 1% of total FBS/D1 football players (source: 2016 NCAA data) and .3% of 4/5 star rated high school talent (source: 24/7 Sports-2013-2017 data). Plus we compete for this limited, below-average talent against a local ACC team with a decent history (tough to admit but BC has a fairly decent football legacy) and that place in Conn that has committed more resources to their program upgrade that we have.
IMO Whipple is a good coach (notwithstanding yesterday’s questionable calls) with solid credentials (College Quarterback, Ivy League educated, NFL coaching pedigree, HC winning record at New Haven, Brown, 1st stint at UMass) who has inherited an extremely difficult task with less- than- ideal resources/existing infrastructure/conference affiliations to succeed. Candidly, the operating conditions are so challenging I believe the legendary Bear Bryant, turn-around specialist Lou Holtz and a modern incarnate of Knute Rockne would have difficulty achieving success at UMass. That said, we still have 11 games to go-let’s continue to support Coach Whipple, his staff and the AMATEUR student-athletes who are busting their collective butts to turn this thing around (I can’t imagine how deflating it must be to come to this board and read anonymous postings from alums; “the O-line is bad”,” the db’s can’t cover”, “we can’t stop the run”, ”the qb has questionable judgement” "the game has passed the hc by". End of year is an appropriate time for fans and the administration to evaluate the HC and his leadership. Additionally, it is also an appropriate time for the Amherst Admin to thoroughly complete a year-end assessment concerning the strategic value and financial viability of achieving FBS football success. Let’s hope we witness some improvement on the field during the next few months and we start achieving some of the objectives in the original tactical plan that justified the move to FBS. Go UMass-Knute Rockne ain't walking thru that door tomorrow so let's rally around and support the program and our committed student athletes as they fight on (as they say at the University of Spoiled Children in LA)!

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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by stevemaz » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:41 am

Hey I could be wrong on this, but I suspect Hawaii is going to be an 8-9 win team this year so no shame in losing a hard fought close game. On to CC where I think we are going to lay a surprising beat down on them after the first quarter.

Again, my seats are on the 50 behind the UMass bench. Not that I like talking about men's butts, but it is noticeable that our guys are solidly built with the kind of asses you need to compete at this level. We are going to be fine this year with only one game where I give us very little chance of winning (Tennessee).

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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by eldonabe » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:58 am

NilesGold wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:52 pm
Sheck wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:01 pm
Feels like it's Whip or bust. Can't see anyone better being interested in coming here. No conference affiliation, worst stadium situation in FBS, and low pay compared to other FBS programs. Just don't see much hope for the future at this point.
This is such a terrible excuse for not firing Whipple. Highly doubtful you'd get someone good enough to turn the program around and spurn better jobs down the road, but for over $300k a year and an opportunity to work your way up the coaching ladder there are probably plenty of coaches willing to take this job and make a go of it. Fuck, didn't we pass on Don Brown to hire Whipple?
Just curious - You were (self proclaimed) unqualified to judge the basketball coach's abilities and that was a (self proclaimed) pass to not ask for his head. I may be a little off, but I do not recall you ever really blowing Whip the way you were blowing DK. Are you much more in tune with the inner working of a football program?

If you want to say you learned your lesson on DK and now have a shorter leash with Whip - then maybe I can get on board with you. I cannot honestly say that I think you have more football knowledge [than basketball] however....

I also do not think Don Brown was ever interested in a return to Amherst - I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure it was a really short list starting and ending with Whip, once we knew there was some interest.

As for the game - there were two glaring missteps:

The 3 and out when they could have iced the game. I have long been a proponent of don't stop doing what works until it stops working (same goes for basketball). Running the ball would have been OK if they tried running outside - they had much more success outside than inside - regardless you gotta still throw before 3rd and long when everyone in the fucking building knows you have to throw.

I am still pissed about the blitz on 3rd and 10. I am not a football player so there are many nuances that I would not necessarily understand, but it was such an easy read that they were pinning their ears back. Even if they all pushed up for a blitz read but retreated on the snap that game is fucking over.... Instead they all push up waaaaay to early and the QB has plenty of time to see it and get ready for it. Just like on our 3rd and 10 - EVERYBODY in the building knows Hawaii has to throw there - except Umass of course so they call the one defensive play that leaves them exposed to a big........... WTF :oops:
Last edited by eldonabe on Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
In Matt McCall I trust!

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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by eldonabe » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:59 am

stevemaz wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:41 am
Hey I could be wrong on this, but I suspect Hawaii is going to be an 8-9 win team this year so no shame in losing a hard fought close game. On to CC where I think we are going to lay a surprising beat down on them after the first quarter.

Again, my seats are on the 50 behind the UMass bench. Not that I like talking about men's butts, but it is noticeable that our guys are solidly built with the kind of asses you need to compete at this level. We are going to be fine this year with only one game where I give us very little chance of winning (Tennessee).

BULLSHIT - They had the game won and UMass lost it (Hawaii did not win it) - that is shameful.
In Matt McCall I trust!

stevemaz
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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by stevemaz » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:31 am

I disagree to some extent. Hawaii made one more play than we did, but did get a huge break on their last drive when their QB threw up a prayer that fell one yard short of being a pick 6 and they did benefit from shaky playcalling by Whip (please hire a OC.. head coaches have too much to worry about to be able to call all the plays). That said, there is no guarantee Umass was going to get another first down on that drive if we called different plays.

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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by Not Trigger » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:35 am

Loss is on Whipple, pure and simple. Hawaii couldn't stop the UMass passing game (particularly Breneman), the UMass D couldn't stop any part of Hawaii's offense. Hawaii kicks a field goal to cut lead to four. Everyone in the stadium knew that either with a score or ending the game with the ball, UMass loses that game. So Whipple decides the first two downs to run the ball up the middle. I can't remember one time the whole game that UMass gained any significant yardage on that play. First down, a questionable call, second down inexcusable. On third down, for some crazy reason Breneman was not even on the field (unless I totally missed him). He was for the final series of the game, so it couldn't have been an injury. Such a big game for the program and such a poor job of turning a W into a L.

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R&G
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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by R&G » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:14 am

You're right about Brenneman not being on the field on that third down play.

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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by NilesGold » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:17 am

eldonabe wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:58 am

Just curious - You were (self proclaimed) unqualified to judge the basketball coach's abilities and that was a (self proclaimed) pass to ask for his head. I may be a little off, but I do not recall you ever really blowing Whip the way you were blowing DK. Are you much more in tune with the inner working of a football program?

If you want to say you learned your lesson on DK and now have a shorter leash with Whip - then maybe I can get on board with you. I cannot honestly say that I think you have more football knowledge [than basketball] however....

I also do not think Don Brown was ever interested in a return to Amherst - I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure it was a really short list starting and ending with Whip, once we knew there was some interest.
I'm less knowledgeable about football than basketball. I've gained a greater understanding of basketball (I'm still no expert) in the last few years and I didn't follow UMass basketball very closely until about the last 5 years. I never blindly followed or supported Kellogg, I had my doubts for a few years, but until this past season I wasn't truly convinced he was unfit for the job.

I 100% have a shorter leash with Whipple due to what happened with Kellogg. I see a lot of similarities in their situations.

I can't say if Brown was interested in coming to UMass, but per multiple reports such as the one below, he was a candidate. It makes far too much sense that possibly the worst AD in UMass' history picked Whipple over Brown... the same AD who did more harm than you'd think possible in the roughly 10 years he was here.
http://mobile.gazettenet.com/Archives/2 ... -hg-011014

This is season #4 for Whipple and season #6 for UMass in FBS and ultimately, I'm left with two possibilities.

#1 - Whipple can't get the job done at UMass. We could get into specifics, but whether it's his recruiting, his play-calling, he hasn't hired the right assistants, etc etc, the specifics don't really matter, he's simply not getting the job done, and UMass needs to hire someone who can.

#2 - FBS football cannot work at UMass. Whatever the reason, be it location, fan support, funding, etc etc, it doesn't work now and it never will. The program should be shuttered and resources should be diverted to other areas.

I'm leaning strongly towards #1. Sure, UMass has a lot working against it and it probably won't win an FBS title in my lifetime, or perhaps ever, or be an FBS power, but I don't think there's any reason UMass can't be a respectable FBS program. Yeah, the program is better off now than it was under Molnar, but so what, it's still the laughinstock of FBS, picked in the bottom 10, if not the absolute worst, of FBS programs by pundits. They're about to play a team in it's first FBS game and last I heard UMass isn't even favored to win.

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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by 69MG » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:29 am

It's hard for me to say this since some of my fondest UMFB memories are from the prior Whip era. But Whip has the longest leash of any recent coach, maybe a tie with DK, and it doesn't seem to be working. I would love to see him turn it around and we have the rest of the season to make it happen. If these end of game disasters continue to happen I think this is Whip's last year. We have enough talent (barely enough) to win these games and the CC game is now a must win.

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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by eldonabe » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:49 am

NilesGold wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:17 am
I'm less knowledgeable about football than basketball. I've gained a greater understanding of basketball (I'm still no expert) in the last few years and I didn't follow UMass basketball very closely until about the last 5 years. I never blindly followed or supported Kellogg, I had my doubts for a few years, but until this past season I wasn't truly convinced he was unfit for the job.

I 100% have a shorter leash with Whipple due to what happened with Kellogg. I see a lot of similarities in their situations.

I can't say if Brown was interested in coming to UMass, but per multiple reports such as the one below, he was a candidate. It makes far too much sense that possibly the worst AD in UMass' history picked Whipple over Brown... the same AD who did more harm than you'd think possible in the roughly 10 years he was here.
http://mobile.gazettenet.com/Archives/2 ... -hg-011014

This is season #4 for Whipple and season #6 for UMass in FBS and ultimately, I'm left with two possibilities.

#1 - Whipple can't get the job done at UMass. We could get into specifics, but whether it's his recruiting, his play-calling, he hasn't hired the right assistants, etc etc, the specifics don't really matter, he's simply not getting the job done, and UMass needs to hire someone who can.

#2 - FBS football cannot work at UMass. Whatever the reason, be it location, fan support, funding, etc etc, it doesn't work now and it never will. The program should be shuttered and resources should be diverted to other areas.

I'm leaning strongly towards #1. Sure, UMass has a lot working against it and it probably won't win an FBS title in my lifetime, or perhaps ever, or be an FBS power, but I don't think there's any reason UMass can't be a respectable FBS program. Yeah, the program is better off now than it was under Molnar, but so what, it's still the laughinstock of FBS, picked in the bottom 10, if not the absolute worst, of FBS programs by pundits. They're about to play a team in it's first FBS game and last I heard UMass isn't even favored to win.
Ok fair enough..... I am not sure how I feel about Whip at this point.

I definitely think the prevent offense is 100% on him though. Honestly, this team has won so few games in 6 years - WTF does he have to lose. Sure they go for it on 4th down twice as much as anyone else but that is because the kicking game is atrocious - he has no choice.

Stop playing not to lose - if that doesn't stop he will lose his job anyways so he might as well start being less cautious at this point regardless.
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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by MJatUM » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:55 am

69MG wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:29 am
If these end of game disasters continue to happen I think this is Whip's last year. We have enough talent (barely enough) to win these games and the CC game is now a must win.
No doubt. Bamford has shown he doesn't really care to much about a coach's history with the school. If he thinks he can get a better fit into the position he will can your ass. Not to mention Whip isn't one of his hires.

Whip's seat was already pretty warm coming into the season and now the seat warmer has been cranked to the max. I'm hesitant to damn the guy and the team for one game of the season - but it is so fucking depressing that this team under Whip has more total losses that they flat out gave away than total wins.

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Re: Game 1 (2017) Hawaii

Post by NilesGold » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:58 am

eldonabe wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:49 am
I definitely think the prevent offense is 100% on him though.
I agree. Trying to run out the clock by running it 4 straight plays with 5:23 remaining was very reminiscent of what Kellogg has done in the past and cost them numerous games.

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