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InnervisionsUMASS
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Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:11 pm

Pointing out that he played 4 games with KC doesn't matter at all in this discussion... it is as if you need to say that because you're not so sure about his stats.


Brady is closing the door on this discussion, 4th ring or not. When all is said and done, he is going to end up as the greatest ever. I LOVE Montana. He and Barry Sanders were my favorite players growing up. I remember staying up all night to watch Montana play in his first game back with SF in the 2nd half of a MNF game, and then being pissed when SF decided to stick with Young. Montana will always be up there, but he is losing his top spot, if it hasn't already left him already.
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Post by SJGMoney » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:33 pm

There's nothing to be un-sure about, numbers are numbers and they don't lie. One guy won 4 Super bowls, one guy won 3. One guy lost none, the other lost 2. I pointed out the fact that 4 of those playoff games were with KC for two reasons: 1, half the people on this board are probably too young to have followed his career and 2, to head off the inevitable counter-argument that he only won and played well because he was on powerhouse 49er teams etc etc. An argument that people also incorrectly use to knock Brady.
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Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:36 pm

Regular season passing stats (sampling of stats, links for full stats below)

Montana - 15 seasons* - 2 MVPs - 8 Pro Bowls - 6 All Pro teams
40,551 yards
63.2% completion %
273 TDs
139 INTs


Brady - 13 seasons* - 2 MVPs - 7 Pro Bowls - 2 All Pro teams
43,812 yards
63.9% completion %
329 TDs
119 INTs


*Each has two seasons in which they had very minimal stats, their rookie season and an injury shortened season

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... ntJo01.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... adTo00.htm


Also, boys and girls, Terry Bradshaw is 4-0 in the Super Bowl as well. Are you really going to sit there and tell me he is better than Tom Brady as well?
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Post by 69MG » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:41 pm

Thank God that basketball starts again on Saturday. :)

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Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:41 pm

SJGMoney wrote:There's nothing to be un-sure about, numbers are numbers and they don't lie. One guy won 4 Super bowls, one guy won 3. One guy lost none, the other lost 2. I pointed out the fact that 4 of those playoff games were with KC for two reasons: 1, half the people on this board are probably too young to have followed his career and 2, to head off the inevitable counter-argument that he only won and played well because he was on powerhouse 49er teams etc etc. An argument that people also incorrectly use to knock Brady.

You shouldn't have included the KC piece. It does not help your argument and makes it look weaker by trying to prop up his San Fran accomplishments.
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Post by UMass87 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:50 pm

SJGMONEY - you fall into a trap that just cracks me up. Brady has already won one more Conference Championships than did Montana. So, when Brady wins his fourth Super Bowl you are going to hold it against him that he won (at least) two more Conference Championships than did Montana?

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Post by SJGMoney » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:52 pm

Actually if you know anything about football history, including the KC info gives him an even better resume as taking that mediocre team to the playoffs both years he was there, and one season to the AFC Championship game, at the end of his career was pretty impressive. And saying anything is needed to "prop up" any aspect of his career is laughable. Almost as ignorant as someone saying if Bledsoe never got hurt Brady wouldn't have won anything. We both know people who said that for a few years until one guy washed out of the league and the other kept going to Super Bowls.
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Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:56 pm

SJG - My point is simple: It shouldn't matter that he went 2-2 and that's why his playoff record is 16-7. There is zero reason to have put that there. None.
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Post by SJGMoney » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:08 pm

UMass87 wrote:SJGMONEY - you fall into a trap that just cracks me up. Brady has already won one more Conference Championships than did Montana. So, when Brady wins his fourth Super Bowl you are going to hold it against him that he won (at least) two more Conference Championships than did Montana?
IF Brady wins another Super Bowl I will say he has any many rings as Joe Montana. That's all. IF he wins two more I will say he is the winning-ist Super Bowl QB of all time. Nothing complicated about that. This is not a knock on Brady although you guys want to make it that way. It's a discussion on who is better. In my opinion they are 1-2 and there is no shame in being #2 behind Joe Montana. Brady had had two chances to match Montana so far and has failed as a heavy favorite both times. Clock is ticking.
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Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:10 pm

Brady is already better than Montana. But, for arguments sake, if he isn't, then winning a 4th ring would absolutely, 100%, put him above Montana. He's played less seasons and his stats are better than Montana's career stats. When all is said and done, his regular season stats will be leaps and bounds better than Montana's and his playoff stats could end up better overall.

4-0 in the Super Bowl is great, but as I mentioned before, I don't see anyone saying Bradshaw is better than Brady, or that Bradshaw is as good as Montana.
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Post by SJGMoney » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:16 pm

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:SJG - My point is simple: It shouldn't matter that he went 2-2 and that's why his playoff record is 16-7. There is zero reason to have put that there. None.
I edited my post so you can relax but I gave you two reasons why I put it on there. How many more would you like?

1. I didn't want anyone to think I was only cherry-picking his great 49er years
2. People forget he played for the Chiefs
3. People forget he took the Chiefs to the playoffs 2 years
4. People forget he took the Chiefs to an AFC championship game
5. People forget that Marty Schottenheimer cried like someone ran over his dog at Montana's retirement press conference. You would have thought Schottenheimer raised him from birth. Unintentional comedy top-5
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Post by SJGMoney » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:22 pm

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:....4-0 in the Super Bowl is great, but as I mentioned before, I don't see anyone saying Bradshaw is better than Brady, or that Bradshaw is as good as Montana.
Well what we could do here is then analyze the two guys who are 4-0. How they played in the Super Bowl and with whom. I don't want to sidetrack this any further but one guy played with 15 Hall of Famers (I don't even know if I'm exaggerating and I'm too lazy to look it up) and one guy played with 3 (one of which, Jerry Rice, was only around for Montana's last two Super Bowls)

Edit: I just looked it up before you guys got all hot and bothered and Bradshaw played with 8 HOF'ers

Edit #2: Wow, I was wrong, Montana only played with 2, Rice and Lott. I thought for sure Randy Cross was in. Fred Dean is, but he was there for one Super Bowl, the prime of his career was spent at SD.
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Post by UMass87 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:29 pm

SGJMoney - you aren't in the least embarrassed that you believe only getting to four Super Bowls butt winning them all is better than getting to six Super Bowls and winning four?

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Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:31 pm

Brady has played with 1 Hall of Famer on offense, and that was only for 2+ years (Randy Moss). Bruce Armstrong doesn't count.
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Post by SJGMoney » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:36 pm

UMass87 wrote:SGJMoney - you aren't in the least embarrassed that you believe only getting to four Super Bowls butt winning them all is better than getting to six Super Bowls and winning four?
Embarrassed? Why? Because I think winning the ultimate game more times and never losing it is better than winning it less and losing more? Can't say I'm embarrassed, no. Some of the things I said to my high school girlfriend? That's a different story.

Jim Kelly lost 4, should he be in the discussion? Does that make him twice as good as Brady or worse, I can't tell what direction you are going.

You guys may be the only Pats fans I've ever know who want to put those losses in the plus column, every other fan, including myself, wants to forget the games were ever played.
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