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Re: Serious Question

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:09 pm
by minutefanjsf
TheOFFSeason wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:55 pm
LS71 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:57 pm
TheOFFSeason wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:55 am
...crapping the plays and letting the guys ‘just play’...both could work but neither will work without rebuilding the foundation of the fundamentals these players play with...develop that and they can run any offense or defense they want. In 2+ years I have not seen any evidence that this is being addressed.
There was no evidence of that under the previous coach either. It seemed to be roll the ball out and let 'em play.
Why is, what seems to be coaching 101, so difficult for our coaches to do?
I will just give my opinion based on some experiences. There are multiple reasons for this but I will give 3:

1. Kids show up with more athleticism but less fundamentals when they get to campus than they used to(certainly there are exceptions to this) because they haven’t been taught them correctly. An example, I was at a prep school practice within the last couple of years...respected coach...4 HM D1 players on the roster...they were running their offensive sets and they were struggling to get the ball in the post. The coach could not figure out what the problem was so he stopped practice and had them do a 3 man passing drill. However, he didn’t teach the wings how to catch the ball properly to be in position to enter the ball...he didn’t teach how to pivot to enter to either side...he didn’t teach the post how to position himself to make the pass easier.
So during their season they struggled on offense, despite having lots of physical talent, lost double digit games and lost early in their tournament.
Now this coach was good at getting players, communicating with them and keeping them in line but he didn’t even recognize the lack of fundamentals that all of his players had. This is just one example.

2. Lack of time...all coaches have less practice time than they used to...College coaches get limited hours with a mandatory day off and 4hrs a week during the off season, HS coaching is a joke-they get so little time with their players, AAU coaches play way too many games.
An example, the best teacher I have ever seen is Pitino...when he took over Providence he would practice 3 times a day and he corrected every mistake because he had the time to do it.
Personally I believe that if you practice the proper way to do things and correct mistakes, instead of working on plays, you will be able to run any offense or defense you want and the players will succeed. Conversely, you can have the greatest offense but if your players don’t catch in the proper position, cut in the proper timing etc it won’t be successful.

3. This one is more and more prevalent...the coaches don’t know what they don’t know.
Th time issue is one where coaches need to learn to prioritize. They need to work on fundamentals. The amount of traveling calls on our guards highlight this, along with my consistent observance that they are completely out of position defensively. I think Tre has been schooled fundamentally, and he needs more work. As freshmen, not much of what they do right can be attributed to the coaching, unless all players seem to have similar movements/skills. Dribbling without purpose is also something that kills me. Some catch the ball and put it on the floor right away.

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:05 pm
by uz2b-len
Context is missing here. Last year Mark Schmidt took a team of mostly freshmen to the conference finals. Other teams confront the same challenges as we do, but haves been much more successful. They beat us, of course.

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:43 pm
by minutefanjsf
uz2b-len wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:05 pm
Context is missing here. Last year Mark Schmidt took a team of mostly freshmen to the conference finals. Other teams confront the same challenges as we do, but haves been much more successful. They beat us, of course.
Right, because he prioritizes fundamentals most likely and interchangeable schemes based on fundamentals. I have coached basketball. The worst I ever did was coaching kids who were supposedly more skilled, so I tried to teach them different sets and plays off the bat. That lasted three practices. Right back to fundamentals. Things like facing the basket, moving to get open, proper defensive stance, stepping into passes, coming to passes, etc. those are things I see missing from this Umass team as well.

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:14 am
by uz2b-len
I don't understand why a McCall would not be teaching fundamentals. McCall spent all those years with Billy Donovan. Surely Donovan taught fundamentals

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:20 am
by Roadtrip
Probably because McCall saw the fundamentals being taught, but he did not have to learn them. You learn by doing.

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:21 am
by econalum
Perhaps the staff is not chosen for teaching fundamentals, but aspects such as recruiting talent.

IMO, the AAU system rewards spectacular athleticism via videos, "top 10', etc., not talent development. And whatever their skill level is in high/prep school, most can simply outrun or outjump the competition.

If one sees how many non-USA players are now in the NBA, the one distinguishing characteristic is their better basic skills and court awareness.

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:48 am
by minutefanjsf
econalum wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:21 am
Perhaps the staff is not chosen for teaching fundamentals, but aspects such as recruiting talent.

IMO, the AAU system rewards spectacular athleticism via videos, "top 10', etc., not talent development. And whatever their skill level is in high/prep school, most can simply outrun or outjump the competition.

If one sees how many non-USA players are now in the NBA, the one distinguishing characteristic is their better basic skills and court awareness.
AAU is the awful for skill development in most cases.

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:54 am
by TheInsider
Obviously a guy like Tre is skilled... his lack of quickness hurts him on D a bit.. but that can come. TJ, CP, and Samba are also pretty "skilled". outside of that though I really think there a lack of talent depth on this team. I think that's why Offseason said its a couple year build. I think our biggest hole is in the guard/ball handler position and that's really the most important position to be successful in the A10.

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:59 pm
by minutefanjsf
You can build fundamental skills in practice. The will has to be there.

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:33 pm
by Battle Ax
It looks really bad when you can’t keep your freshman recruits (Sy and Woods).

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:55 pm
by uz2b-len
What do you mean by "freshman recruits?"

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:33 pm
by Battle Ax
uz2b-len wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:55 pm
What do you mean by "freshman recruits?"
The freshman he recruited is a better way to phrase it

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:04 pm
by minutefanjsf
Battle Ax wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:33 pm
It looks really bad when you can’t keep your freshman recruits (Sy and Woods).
When you recruit guys and then recruit over them and they don’t want to compete that can be a factor. Might be more to it as well.

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:16 pm
by UMassHoops
uz2b-len wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:05 pm
Context is missing here. Last year Mark Schmidt took a team of mostly freshmen to the conference finals. Other teams confront the same challenges as we do, but haves been much more successful. They beat us, of course.
I agree with this, while true that players attitudes have changed, fundamentals may not be as well developed etc. it is an equal bar for every coaching staff to overcome. Somehow our coaches always seem to limbo under that bar consistently.

Re: Serious Question

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:12 am
by InnervisionsUMASS
I find it hard to believe that McCall doesn't teach/work on fundamentals in practice. I didn't buy it that DK was not teaching/working on fundamentals either. I get that their philosophies might be/have been more "let the players play" during the games, but in my mind that should lead to more time for fundamentals in practice. What the hell is going on during practice time if fundamentals are not a major part?