Serious Question

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TheInsider
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Serious Question

Post by TheInsider » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:18 am

Why do we think it will be any different next year? What do we add?? A 6'5 hustle guy and a pg that doesn't even start for his prep team. Even if we make a "jump" we go from a shitty A10 team to a mediocre A10 team?? Its not like ever other A10 has all seniors and is graduating everyone... Good players are coming back. To be successful in the A10 you need a dynamic guard or guards... who on our team fits that bill? MM just doesn't have it and I dont think it will get better. There are a couple pieces on the roster to build around but right now with the talent we have they are playing like a bottom A10 team. Ever notice that Offseason has disappeared?? He strikes me as a guy that would rather say nothing than point out how bad things are...

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Re: Serious Question

Post by bobolink » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:35 am

One obvious answer is the expected return of TJ, who looked very good before his injury. We expect roster turnover, but have no idea what that could be. Imagine finding a grad transfer like Djery but with some offense. Add that to player development and you've got something. Positions most likely to develop are usually point guards and bigs. For now, I'm hoping for improvement this season and there will be plenty (too many) days without games coming this spring & summer. We can speculate then. Meanwhile, there's still more than a dozen games this season to see the needed improvement in coaching that could fill out the picture.

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Re: Serious Question

Post by TheOFFSeason » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:55 am

Up until Saturday they had won every game that they were supposed to win...they had great opportunities to beat Yale, South Carolina and St Louis but were unable to pull it off. Certainly having Weeks and Buggs healthy as well as a committed Chatman, like they prepared for all summer and fall, would make a difference in their record but there is still a fundamental problem that needs to be addressed if this program is truly going to get on track and I don’t know if MM can identify it. Walfish came out and said he feels MM needs to take more control and not let the players run as free...there was a long post on Twitter about scrapping the plays and letting the guys ‘just play’...both could work but neither will work without rebuilding the foundation of the fundamentals these players play with...develop that and they can run any offense or defense they want. In 2+ years I have not seen any evidence that this is being addressed.

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Re: Serious Question

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:06 am

TheOFFSeason wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:55 am
Walfish came out and said he feels MM needs to take more control and not let the players run as free...there was a long post on Twitter about scrapping the plays and letting the guys ‘just play’...both could work but neither will work without rebuilding the foundation of the fundamentals these players play with...develop that and they can run any offense or defense they want. In 2+ years I have not seen any evidence that this is being addressed.

I feel like I've heard this before.... :shock:
Stop waiting for UMass to do something big and help UMass do something big. - Shades

minutefanjsf
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Re: Serious Question

Post by minutefanjsf » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:11 am

One aspect of the Walfish article that struck me was the HS skill set the players try to employ. They haven’t been taught that their superior athletic ability that garnered HS success and D1 scholarships are not unique in college basketball. They seem to play with a swagger they haven’t earned. The defensive positioning and lack of defensive intensity is what bothers me the most. It doesn’t look like they practice ripping the ball, etc.

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Re: Serious Question

Post by eldonabe » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:04 am

TheInsider wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:18 am
Why do we think it will be any different next year? What do we add?? A 6'5 hustle guy and a pg that doesn't even start for his prep team. Even if we make a "jump" we go from a shitty A10 team to a mediocre A10 team?? Its not like ever other A10 has all seniors and is graduating everyone... Good players are coming back. To be successful in the A10 you need a dynamic guard or guards... who on our team fits that bill? MM just doesn't have it and I dont think it will get better. There are a couple pieces on the roster to build around but right now with the talent we have they are playing like a bottom A10 team. Ever notice that Offseason has disappeared?? He strikes me as a guy that would rather say nothing than point out how bad things are...
The simple process of maturity ....... A full spring, summer and fall in the wight room and playing together. There is quite a bit of "freelancing" but it still seems to be within a loose system. The more they play around together the more they are subconsciously aware of each other's tendencies. This stuff about HS skills versus College Skills all flows into the maturity schedule too.

It is easier to improve over [during] the season than it is to mature over the season- especially the freshmen. The schedule is different, the travel is different; their bodies are not used to that. Fatigue is a huge factor that first year.

Without a real unexpected departure, this team will be 5-8 wins better next year. That is top half of the conference, and a winning record with some kind of post season tourney. Two years from now is a 20+ win season and whatever that brings with it.
In Matt McCall I trust!

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Re: Serious Question

Post by TheInsider » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:09 am

I really hope your right but I still think we are missing what you need most in the A10.. guards that can break you down and find offense. Going from the bottom to the top half in one year without adding a playmaker at the guard position is a jump I just dont know we make.

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Re: Serious Question

Post by Jackson96 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:17 am

I think that’s what they are hoping Garcia and Odukale (if they land him) can help do.
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Re: Serious Question

Post by 78 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:05 pm

TheOFFSeason wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:55 am
Up until Saturday they had won every game that they were supposed to win...they had great opportunities to beat Yale, South Carolina and St Louis but were unable to pull it off. Certainly having Weeks and Buggs healthy as well as a committed Chatman, like they prepared for all summer and fall, would make a difference in their record but there is still a fundamental problem that needs to be addressed if this program is truly going to get on track and I don’t know if MM can identify it. Walfish came out and said he feels MM needs to take more control and not let the players run as free...there was a long post on Twitter about scrapping the plays and letting the guys ‘just play’...both could work but neither will work without rebuilding the foundation of the fundamentals these players play with...develop that and they can run any offense or defense they want. In 2+ years I have not seen any evidence that this is being addressed.
And this is why I have no confidence in McCall, but I guess we have him here for at least one more year after this.
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Re: Serious Question

Post by LS71 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:57 pm

TheOFFSeason wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:55 am
...crapping the plays and letting the guys ‘just play’...both could work but neither will work without rebuilding the foundation of the fundamentals these players play with...develop that and they can run any offense or defense they want. In 2+ years I have not seen any evidence that this is being addressed.
There was no evidence of that under the previous coach either. It seemed to be roll the ball out and let 'em play.
Why is, what seems to be coaching 101, so difficult for our coaches to do?
"Win without boasting, lose without crying." -- Julius Erving

TheOFFSeason
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Re: Serious Question

Post by TheOFFSeason » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:55 pm

LS71 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:57 pm
TheOFFSeason wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:55 am
...crapping the plays and letting the guys ‘just play’...both could work but neither will work without rebuilding the foundation of the fundamentals these players play with...develop that and they can run any offense or defense they want. In 2+ years I have not seen any evidence that this is being addressed.
There was no evidence of that under the previous coach either. It seemed to be roll the ball out and let 'em play.
Why is, what seems to be coaching 101, so difficult for our coaches to do?
I will just give my opinion based on some experiences. There are multiple reasons for this but I will give 3:

1. Kids show up with more athleticism but less fundamentals when they get to campus than they used to(certainly there are exceptions to this) because they haven’t been taught them correctly. An example, I was at a prep school practice within the last couple of years...respected coach...4 HM D1 players on the roster...they were running their offensive sets and they were struggling to get the ball in the post. The coach could not figure out what the problem was so he stopped practice and had them do a 3 man passing drill. However, he didn’t teach the wings how to catch the ball properly to be in position to enter the ball...he didn’t teach how to pivot to enter to either side...he didn’t teach the post how to position himself to make the pass easier.
So during their season they struggled on offense, despite having lots of physical talent, lost double digit games and lost early in their tournament.
Now this coach was good at getting players, communicating with them and keeping them in line but he didn’t even recognize the lack of fundamentals that all of his players had. This is just one example.

2. Lack of time...all coaches have less practice time than they used to...College coaches get limited hours with a mandatory day off and 4hrs a week during the off season, HS coaching is a joke-they get so little time with their players, AAU coaches play way too many games.
An example, the best teacher I have ever seen is Pitino...when he took over Providence he would practice 3 times a day and he corrected every mistake because he had the time to do it.
Personally I believe that if you practice the proper way to do things and correct mistakes, instead of working on plays, you will be able to run any offense or defense you want and the players will succeed. Conversely, you can have the greatest offense but if your players don’t catch in the proper position, cut in the proper timing etc it won’t be successful.

3. This one is more and more prevalent...the coaches don’t know what they don’t know.

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LS71
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Re: Serious Question

Post by LS71 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:23 pm

^ Thanks for that, OffSeason.

We've seen videos of the strength stuff they do...and I get the need for that, but they need to get better at time management when it comes to structuring the practice time they do have. Sounds like coaches should come up through the ranks of Physical Education, so they know how and what to teach. Maybe someone at Springfield College can help! :wink:
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bmc24
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Re: Serious Question

Post by bmc24 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:33 pm

TheOFFSeason wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:55 pm
LS71 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:57 pm
TheOFFSeason wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:55 am
...crapping the plays and letting the guys ‘just play’...both could work but neither will work without rebuilding the foundation of the fundamentals these players play with...develop that and they can run any offense or defense they want. In 2+ years I have not seen any evidence that this is being addressed.
There was no evidence of that under the previous coach either. It seemed to be roll the ball out and let 'em play.
Why is, what seems to be coaching 101, so difficult for our coaches to do?
I will just give my opinion based on some experiences. There are multiple reasons for this but I will give 3:

1. Kids show up with more athleticism but less fundamentals when they get to campus than they used to(certainly there are exceptions to this) because they haven’t been taught them correctly. An example, I was at a prep school practice within the last couple of years...respected coach...4 HM D1 players on the roster...they were running their offensive sets and they were struggling to get the ball in the post. The coach could not figure out what the problem was so he stopped practice and had them do a 3 man passing drill. However, he didn’t teach the wings how to catch the ball properly to be in position to enter the ball...he didn’t teach how to pivot to enter to either side...he didn’t teach the post how to position himself to make the pass easier.
So during their season they struggled on offense, despite having lots of physical talent, lost double digit games and lost early in their tournament.
Now this coach was good at getting players, communicating with them and keeping them in line but he didn’t even recognize the lack of fundamentals that all of his players had. This is just one example.

2. Lack of time...all coaches have less practice time than they used to...College coaches get limited hours with a mandatory day off and 4hrs a week during the off season, HS coaching is a joke-they get so little time with their players, AAU coaches play way too many games.
An example, the best teacher I have ever seen is Pitino...when he took over Providence he would practice 3 times a day and he corrected every mistake because he had the time to do it.
Personally I believe that if you practice the proper way to do things and correct mistakes, instead of working on plays, you will be able to run any offense or defense you want and the players will succeed. Conversely, you can have the greatest offense but if your players don’t catch in the proper position, cut in the proper timing etc it won’t be successful.

3. This one is more and more prevalent...the coaches don’t know what they don’t know.
Excellent Post. Love the part about harping on little things like fundamentals of sending and receiving a pass in the post and out at the wing.

I would add that my sense is that we’ve had teams over the past decade or so that had players who think they are better than they really are and coaches that believe those players have talents that they truly don’t possess. I think players not being held accountable for unfavorable shot selection is a direct result of this belief and serves as an example.

As an example of the opposite take a Look at a team like Davidson. That team is filled with kids who know exactly what they are capable of and has a coach that understands their strengths and weaknesses and puts them in position to succeed without asking them to do too much.

I love umass , but don’t think that has happened here since TF. Doesn’t mean Matt cannot learn that, but not the case at the moment.

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LS71
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Re: Serious Question

Post by LS71 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:18 pm

TheOFFSeason wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:55 pm
An example, the best teacher I have ever seen is Pitino...when he took over Providence he would practice 3 times a day and he corrected every mistake because he had the time to do it.
...and we know where he learned that.
Did he have the time or did he make the time?
"Win without boasting, lose without crying." -- Julius Erving

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Re: Serious Question

Post by 69MG » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:37 pm

^ The best example of fundamental basketball that I can recall is when Butler came here in 2013. We had a great team and they beat us by 11. Edit: I should have said that "it seemed like" they were never out of position, never made a bad pass or took an ill-advised shot. In fact they did make a few mistakes, but not many.

I looked at the box score and they didn't have any names that stood out.

We had:
Carter, Sampson F
Vinson, Terrell F
Lalanne, Cady C
Williams, Chaz G
Riley, Freddie G
Esho, Maxie
Bergantino, Tyler
Davis, Trey
Putney, Raphiael

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