Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by UMassHoops » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:14 pm

Floyd wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:37 am
Wasn't it posted somewhere earlier in the season that MM was handling the offense, and TB the defense? Wonder how that dynamic works and if MM over rides any of the defensive schemes or calls all of it. TB certainly seemed a bit discouraged last night
MM is the head coach, so whatever the dynamic is, it is completely on him to assert control. If he can't lead and make the ultimate call (or override his defensive coordinator) then he has no future in head coaching. The buck stops here.

I'm sure that TB is also starting to see that the high school press all the time philosophy doesn't work as well at the next level and needs to be adjusted.

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by m626t » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:23 pm

Is MM sacrificing wins now in an effort to improve the press in hopes of more wins during the A10 portion of the schedule? I sure hope not, but it looks like it to me.
All due respect, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart, I'm gonna pass.

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by minutefanjsf » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:23 pm

m626t wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:23 pm
Is MM sacrificing wins now in an effort to improve the press in hopes of more wins during the A10 portion of the schedule? I sure hope not, but it looks like it to me.
No hoops coach sacrifices wins. If they are not in a game, sure they will use it to scrimmage and practice things they are working on. In a game they are competing they will not sacrifice a win. The problem is the press is inconsistent, not that it doesn't work all the time. They have to identify why and when it breaks down. They also have to have a number that is acceptable for blown assignments or easy buckets. Easy buckets happen when presses are broken. You just can't throw it away every time it gets broken. The energy used to beat a press should have an effect as well. It is cumulative. The defense wasn't the real issue last night. Missing freethrows and rebounding contributed just as much as blown press coverage. If the coach expects the press to work as he expects them to rebound and shoot FTs, you can see how it is difficult to call the press off.

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by capezona » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:23 pm

I'm not a coach but it seems to me that using the press intermittently would be more effective and throw some teams off.

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by Battle Ax » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:57 pm

UMassHoops wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:09 pm
Battle Ax wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:18 am
I love how we all knew going in that these last 4 games were going to be tough on a young team. They play their asses off and never roll over but now we’re doubting them. If this was last years team they would’ve quit and got blown out. This team deserves our patience. As the season goes on they will figure things out.
Don't confuse frustration with the coaching with lack of patience (or support) for the team. I love these players and think we have assembled one of the best freshmen classes I've seen. I'd like McCall to step up his coaching and make some adjustments with the press to put these guys in a better position to win. Change of pace is important, if you keep ramming the same defense at them all game they figure it out. McCall should know this by now since it's been obvious to a whole bunch of amateurs on this board for 3-4 games now.
With practice the press will get better just like anything else. I’m willing to take a wait and see approach. For now😂

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by uz2b-len » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:45 pm

The arithmetic of the press is pretty simple. Let's say an average possession produces 1 point. (I think that's more or less accurate.) A broken press that yields a layup/dunk gives up 2 points. A press that produces a turnover yields 0 points. So as long as the press produces more turnovers than giveaways it is a net plus. That's not even taking into account the side benefits of the press--wearing out the opponent, shortening the shot clock for the opponent, creating easy points for the defense when they do force a turnover, etc.
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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by Quann » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:10 pm

^^^^
Did the Gamecocks look worn out from the press? Good high school teams can beat a full court press, never mind division 1 college teams. It’s not good fundamental basketball.

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by uz2b-len » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:54 pm

I believe VCU got to the Final Four that way and Arkansas won it all that way.
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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by capezona » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:34 pm

Quann wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:10 pm
^^^^
Did the Gamecocks look worn out from the press? Good high school teams can beat a full court press, never mind division 1 college teams. It’s not good fundamental basketball.
If you watch the '95 (I believe) game between UMass and Kentucky both teams pressed the whole game and it was amazing to watch. They knew what they were doing. But it's painful to watch our guys get beat so easily once the press breaks down. I don't know the answer but I think they need to mix it up: full court, delayed press, drop back, whatever - something different.

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by LS71 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:53 pm

"Win without boasting, lose without crying." -- Julius Erving

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by Jackson96 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:15 pm

I don’t remember UMass pressing much under Cal. I just remember them playing tough man to man defense as if their lives depended upon it and rebounding the shit out of the ball.
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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by rayers » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:43 pm

First of all there have been D1 teams that pressed after each score but those have been far and few between. The teams that were successful had some combination of outstanding athletes( long and fast and able to anticipate and read) and/or their style of trapping was extremely physical and aggressive. We have neither of those traits or skills. If you want examples, check out Arkansas c.1994 and see what super long and quick athletes can do in a press especially with a true rim guarded. Look at VCU under Smart and look at how the traps are set. The defenders get their thighs into the offensive players thighs daring the foul call but making it extremely tough on the offense. We do not have either of these scenarios but we have talented kids who play hard. Let them play really hard physical half court D and throw occasional presses on when we start rolling! I really hope the coaches figure out that winning is infinitely more important than playing a certain style that doesn’t fit the players or their teaching. Yes, I feel much better now.

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by Quann » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:09 pm

^^^^
100% agreement Rayers. Reminds me of Bell refusing to stop the hurry up offense this year. Let’s hope McCall decides to adapt.

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by stevemaz » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:02 am

I certainly would not press this much vs teams with equal or better athletes (like our last 4 opponents have).

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Re: Game 9, 2019-20: South Carolina (12/4)

Post by Worcester_To_Amherst » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:34 am

I agree with pretty much all the comments about the game. I'm not sure if I've seen such uniformity of opinion on this board before. Pretty much everyone likes the direction of the team, the effort, and just wants to mix up the style of defense a little more. Most of us agree the press can be a great tool and against lesser teams you can run it pretty much all game, but against better competition they need to pick their spots. I think the biggest problem with the press right now is we don't have a good rim protector as the last man. Tre's defense is not as mature as his offensive game, and I'm not sure he has the leaping ability/quick twitch necessary to defend the 2 on 1's he's faced with. I think Sy might be a little better back there, but he's also very valuable at the front.

I hope MM keeps an open mind and doesn't commit to a single style. I have to imagine this past 4 game stretch is opening his eyes. I think the Virginia and Rutgers losses were against superior teams, but I feel like SC/SJ were very winnable games.

I just hope to see some improvement as the season goes on. This team has the full support of the fan base.

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