KAEO: Sean East

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NilesGold
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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by NilesGold » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:40 pm

inthescoop wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:43 pm
Thank you for your response you recruiting genius know it all. What would UMass Basketball do without Niles guys?
Did something I say upset you?

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:47 pm

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:30 am
Did Sean East get screwed out of the All-Rookie Team? Discuss!
Yes. He had a better season than 3 other guys picked, especially Collins.

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by TheInsider » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:37 pm

I think the problem for East was two fold.. he didnt start against many of the voters and secondly he was very feast or famon. He had some really good games, but he had more games where he didnt show up. So for most of the coaches he did nothing against their team and those are the guys who voted.

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by NilesGold » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:38 pm

I didn't include Tre Mitchell or Bones Hyland because I don't think there's much argument against them on the rookie team. Below are selected stats from Sean East & the other 3 players who made the team for A10 conference games only. Then there's the matter of stats not accurately capturing how well a player defends. You could make a case that East deserves it over Collins, but I'm not sure how compelling it would be. I don't think he really has a case to make it over Lee or Battle.

In A10 conference play:

East: 26.6 mpg, 7.6 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 4.8 apg, 2.8 turnovers pg, 33% FG, 43% True Shooting
Collins: 33.6 mpg, 5.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg, 3.3 turnovers pg, 38% FG, 45% True Shooting
Lee: 21.1 mpg, 8.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.8 apg, 0.9 turnovers pg, 43% FG, 60% True Shooting
Battle: 36.0 mpg, 12.6 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.5 apg, 1.2 turnovers pg, 40% FG, 57% True Shooting

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:37 pm

When Sean East’s stats are shown to be better than others, well, we move the conversation to A10 only (which is what we always meant, mmm, yes, yes, yes- and even then they hold up) or we fixate on “starting.” Yes, starting; the established criteria for honors. Well, for their part, all-A10 rookie team members Lee started 0 games and Hyland started 9. East started 20 and overall averaged starter’s minutes at 28 per game. The explanations for why Sean East didn't make the team keep drifting. Regrettably, we have UMass fans who seem determined to disparage Sean’s excellent freshmen season. He should have made A10 along with Tre. It is obvious. And nobody is arguing that Battle shouldn't be on the rookie team, so we can just drop that distraction/comparison, Niles.

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by NilesGold » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:00 pm

^ I can't speak for anyone else, but my entire case for why Tre should've been 1st team was based on comparisons of A10 conference stats. I think A10 stats are what should be used because then you're comparing apples to apples since teams are playing the same competition.

I don't care about who starts as it relates to the award, but maybe others do, that's their right, and as far as I know the A10 doesn't have any established guidelines setting the criteria for determining award winners.

I never said anyone was arguing that Battle shouldn't be on the rookie team, I considered not including him but went ahead anyway just so people could see his stats. Who are you arguing shouldn't be on the rookie team?

I wouldn't put Sean on the rookie team, and I don't think he got robbed, but I also don't think it's absurd if anyone feels he should be on it over Collins.

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:02 pm

TheInsider wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:37 pm
...So for most of the coaches he did nothing against their team and those are the guys who voted.
Against other all A10 rookies, East held his own. Not sure how those coaches voted. East outplayed Collins in head-to-head: East had 22 points, 12 assists/7 TOs and 5 steals. Collins had 8 points, 12 assists/11 TOs and 3 steals. Against VCU (Hyland) East had 10 points, 6 assists, 3 turnovers and a steal. Hyland had 9 points, 4 assists, 2 turnovers and 2 steals. Lee definitely scorched us, and East and the entire team did nothing, so we will give Lee that one game.

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:08 pm

NilesGold wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:00 pm
Who are you arguing shouldn't be on the rookie team?
I have already stated this, but take your pick. East could replace Collins, Hyland, or Lee.

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by uz2b-len » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:28 pm

It's borderline, and in a borderline situation the voters (coaches) are gonna opt not to pick another UMass guy.
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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by NilesGold » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:07 am

JoleonLescottsHair wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:02 pm
TheInsider wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:37 pm
...So for most of the coaches he did nothing against their team and those are the guys who voted.
Against other all A10 rookies, East held his own. Not sure how those coaches voted. East outplayed Collins in head-to-head: East had 22 points, 12 assists/7 TOs and 5 steals. Collins had 8 points, 12 assists/11 TOs and 3 steals. Against VCU (Hyland) East had 10 points, 6 assists, 3 turnovers and a steal. Hyland had 9 points, 4 assists, 2 turnovers and 2 steals. Lee definitely scorched us, and East and the entire team did nothing, so we will give Lee that one game.
TheInsider has a valid point, and head-to-head stats, even if they're favorable to East, don't discredit his argument. East played against 13 other A10 teams, all of whom vote on the award, and he played poorly against some of them.

Coaches also scout opposing teams, so they'd be still be familiar with East beyond just how he played in their game, but I'm guessing how he played against them might factor more heavily in their evaluation of him.

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by TheInsider » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:38 am

22.2mpg/58.2 FG%/ .457 3pt fg%/ 3.1 rpg/ 1.05 apg/ .6 turnovers pg/ 6.6 ppg


What about this guy??? started more than half the league season and while scoring a bit less than lee had a better fg %, rpg, apg, and less turnovers??

I think len is correct. Unless someone went off (maybe a guy like TJ if he stayed hot) they weren't going to put multiple guys from the same team on the list.

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by uz2b-len » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:32 am

One thing I get from all this is that the league's freshman class this year wasn't too great aside from Tre
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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by NilesGold » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:51 am

TheInsider wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:38 am
22.2mpg/58.2 FG%/ .457 3pt fg%/ 3.1 rpg/ 1.05 apg/ .6 turnovers pg/ 6.6 ppg


What about this guy??? started more than half the league season and while scoring a bit less than lee had a better fg %, rpg, apg, and less turnovers??

I think len is correct. Unless someone went off (maybe a guy like TJ if he stayed hot) they weren't going to put multiple guys from the same team on the list.
You forgot to mention 0.8 bpg. I personally think Preston has as good of a case as Sean to make it - which is to say both can make a case that's got merit, but far from overwhelming. If the season had gone another 5-10 games Preston probably would've had an even better case.

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:59 am

NilesGold wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:07 am
East played against 13 other A10 teams, all of whom vote on the award, and he played poorly against some of them.
And Collins, Hyland, and Lee had no poor games against A10 teams? We have entered the utterly, utterly bizarre. I look forward to the next ever shifting explanation.

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Re: KAEO: Sean East

Post by NilesGold » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:04 am

uz2b-len wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:32 am
One thing I get from all this is that the league's freshman class this year wasn't too great aside from Tre
That might partially be due to the ebbs and flows of recruiting, and also injuries. TJ Weeks and Gibson Jimerson were both playing very well before having season ending injuries. The A10 appears to be really heavy on impact sophomores & juniors, it was probably a harder sell than most years to get good 2019 kids to commit. There are also some solid freshmen who just didn't put up a lot of stats, like Josh Oduro, Hason Ward, Mekhi Long, Maceo Austin, Joel Soriano, etc.

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