Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

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LS71
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by LS71 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:33 am

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:46 am
Very few players, here or elsewhere, play for the name on the front of the jersey these days. AAU has essentially ruined that. It's time to move away from that thought. It's a brave new world out there.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:15 pm

^

I think my point was very clear. Playing for the front of the jersey is a near extinct mindset.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by LS71 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:22 pm

Duh...I get that...you're saying they're playing for themselves.

So, how does playing like this team is playing benefit the names on the back of the jersey?
Last edited by LS71 on Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by MJatUM » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:25 pm

TheChamp wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:10 am
Welcome back to the board Derek!

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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by bunkerhill87 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:29 pm

Roadtrip wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:08 am
^ And this lends itself to a thought I had. Most of these kids have had success at the high school level, without having to work very hard for it, it seems. Plus, they are living in an age of near instant gratification with the technology. It may be impossible for McCall to find kids with the dedication, passion, work ethic, and basketball fundamentals, to accomplish his goals for the program.
Schmidt at Bonas finds them. he passes all the time due to character. somehow he finds players and if they dont follow they are gone

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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:30 pm

LS71 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:22 pm
Duh...I get that...you're saying they're playing for themselves.

So, how does playing like this team is playing benefit the names on the back of the jersey?

I didn't say it did. I don't have the answer... it might simply be that we just aren't that good. Crazy thought, right?

But if the coach is banking on getting a bunch of guys who will think about the name on the front of the jersey and not the back, we're in trouble.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by LS71 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:32 pm

Call it a shared responsibility for the names on both sides of the jersey.

Most college basketball players are not going to play professionally. They need to get an education so they can support themselves and their families after their playing days are over. UMass is providing an opportunity for a free education in exchange for their basketball skills. My understanding is that these scholarships are renewable annually. If they're performing as expected...not necessarily winning, but giving 100%, fine. If not I would not renew...let 'em waste another school's money.

Other programs are competing with this being the reality, UMass should be able to as well.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:36 pm

^

I'm not going to call it anything related to the front of the jersey. It's talent, coaching and leading... plain and simple. We seem to be lacking in all those areas at this moment.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by Jackson96 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:50 pm

IV, I think you are making some serious generalizations about kids these days. There are plenty of good kids out there who are playing for not just themselves but their team. Just like there are quite a few (bad/immature/insert your own adjective) kids out there only looking out for number one. And I think AAU does help a ton of kids. Just like there are a few folks in it for the wrong reasons.

I think social media amplifies a lot of issues (while also doing some good) but for everything else, it is the same as it ever was. I guess we'll just disagree on that.

There's a bigger issue (the idea of amateurism) but that's a whole different topic.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by LS71 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:56 pm

^^
While that may be true for the one and dones "anything related to the front of the jersey"...I think you're a little too quick to dismiss the front of the jersey (UMass). There's more than basketball for them here.

The coaching has to be sure that the kids who come to UMass understand that it's a two way street.

Talent will never be enough. That's where the coaching and leadership comes into play. Good coaching helps players understand that talent + work = success. That includes the discipline to stay academically eligible and show up time ready to practice...EVERY DAY! If they're not going to do that for UMass then they need to do it for themselves and their futures.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:59 pm

^^

I'm certainly generalizing. There are certainly some kids out there who take pride in the school they play for or choose to play for, but they are few and far between these days.

Again, this isn't about winning... all players want to win and there are many that will sacrifice themselves to win. This is very specifically the concept of playing for the name on the front of the uniform, and more generally, loyalty to a team/program.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by Jackson96 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:37 pm

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:59 pm
^^

I'm certainly generalizing. There are certainly some kids out there who take pride in the school they play for or choose to play for, but they are few and far between these days.

Again, this isn't about winning... all players want to win and there are many that will sacrifice themselves to win. This is very specifically the concept of playing for the name on the front of the uniform, and more generally, loyalty to a team/program.
It's the "few and far between these days" part I don't necessarily know how you would measure. I wonder if being so close to a situation where it does seem to be few and far between makes for a different version of recency bias.

I do think kids are more aware of their own particular situations and how this is a business and thus have no real issues with transferring etc. -- but that could also just be us being made more aware of it because of social media etc. (where is stats with his transfer rates comparison graphs?)

Generally though, when I watch hoops today I still see plenty of kids who give a shit about playing for their teams and schools. I do think the style of play has changed a bit and that might affect how we view it. I don't love scoring point guards -- but I've come to accept that when there is a really good scoring point guard (and not just a shooting guard who can pass a little bit) who can balance scoring and passing (it's a delicate balance) I think that is when a team can be at their best. That didn't just happen overnight for me...I always have been a table setter kind of guy (give me Anton or Edgar!).

Anywho, I know I am generalizing here in spots myself. I also think I confused myself.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:50 pm

^

Fair points. It may very well be a recency bias to what's going on in front of me (UMass, Celtics...). I don't think it is, but one doesn't normally know their own bias.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by Jackson96 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:59 pm

The Celtics almost have me more depressed than UMass.
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Re: Game 28, 2018-19: Dayton (2/26)

Post by MJatUM » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:46 pm

It was funny (read: depressing) listening to Brad Stevens on with Zo & Beetle today. He kept talking about how the team has struggled since the beginning of the season to remain connected.

Also, as it pertains to the whole front/back of the jersey thing. I interpret that as being about winning above all else. Whether it's for UMass or UNC or Nicholls College, playing for the front of the jersey means playing for the team. I think McCalls point is that guys are bummed out that they didn't get a lot of run vs St Joes opposed to being thrilled that they were able to get a good win despite individual results. There are tons and tons of kids out there with that attitude and honestly unless you're a one-and-done type of guy, it should be looked at as a pretty big red flag if you're not a team first guy.

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