State of the program

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Roadtrip
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Re: State of the program

Post by Roadtrip » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:10 pm

Sooooo, nowhere to go but up.

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Re: State of the program

Post by 78 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:29 pm

I may be one of the few who thinks this, but with Laurent now gone, I don’t see how with 8 freshmen next year this team wins more than 15 games. We have like 30 points per game coming back. That’s it. My only expectation is that at the end of the year the team is much better than at the beginning and shows promise. I get that mistakes are made, but 4 guys that McCall recruited are gone. Another guy who committed is now looking elsewhere. An entire assistant coaching staff is gone. I’ve never seen this much turnover in one season unless the head coach leaves. I really am surprised that a good amount of posters Are giving McCall a pass. He’s created a good part of the problem.
Bamford has erased McCutcheon

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uz2b-len
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Re: State of the program

Post by uz2b-len » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:31 pm

Have a look at Travis Ford's early career at EKU.
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Re: State of the program

Post by 78 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:36 pm

^^^
Maybe has nothing to do with his coaching ability, but I like the fact that Travis Ford played for Kentucky and was a member of a final four team. I can’t imagine he had any year with turnover like we are seeing here, but I could be totally wrong.
Bamford has erased McCutcheon

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Re: State of the program

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:47 pm

78 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:29 pm I really am surprised that a good amount of posters Are giving McCall a pass.
What exactly aren't people saying that you would like to see more of?

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Re: State of the program

Post by Juice Stand » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:06 pm

This offseason has me frustrated and disappointed in the amount of turmoil, instability, finger pointing, etc. But I think think I'm at the point where the greatest disappointment is that McCall didn't have a clue what he wanted to do in his first two years here and they seem like wasted seasons. I guess it was similar during the DK - Vance Walberg years. Hopefully the changes he's making, and the players he's identifying and bringing in are going to turn this thing around. I have some optimism, but I also feel 78's opinion. I guess I kind of feel like Eric Idle at the end of Life of Brian.

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Re: State of the program

Post by UMassHoops » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:19 pm

McKinney wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:44 pm
uz2b-len wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:41 am Fans are fair-weather everywhere. Give them 5 years of losing and they stop showing up.
Exactly len. UMass has what, like maybe 5 good seasons in the past 20 years? 15 crummy years will kill just about any program, pro market or not. And of those 5 seasons only one had any real potential of turning heads (where we got into the Top 25 and went to the NCAA).
I agree, UMass fans could be more active, but the program has sucked for more than a decade. Fans need consistency also to feel like they are part of something bigger. I think there are only a few people calling for MM's head, the majority have just been turned off to our program from years of underperformance.

If we start winning the fans will pile in, and yes many will be fair weather bandwagon fans. But we need to excite another generation and then consistently win to build this base back up. Then you can endure the down year or two, but not the down decade.

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Re: State of the program

Post by UMassHoops » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:25 pm

78 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:29 pm I may be one of the few who thinks this, but with Laurent now gone, I don’t see how with 8 freshmen next year this team wins more than 15 games. We have like 30 points per game coming back. That’s it. My only expectation is that at the end of the year the team is much better than at the beginning and shows promise. I get that mistakes are made, but 4 guys that McCall recruited are gone. Another guy who committed is now looking elsewhere. An entire assistant coaching staff is gone. I’ve never seen this much turnover in one season unless the head coach leaves. I really am surprised that a good amount of posters Are giving McCall a pass. He’s created a good part of the problem.
Make no mistake MM f'ed up big time in his first two years. It's hindsight but clearly the assistants weren't good decisions, the transfers by and large weren't good decisions, some of the newer players like Tre Wood weren't good decisions. Not much has gone right and MM has to shoulder the blame (which he mostly has). That's little consolation if he doesn't turn it around next year. I'm on board mostly because there is no chance MM goes anyway this year so we have to live with it, and at least I think bold moves are being made and talented recruits coming in.

No one would blame anyone being turned off and negative, I'm just choosing to be positive because why not? It's not a pass, it's massively disappointing so far but hope springs eternal and I'm pretty sure that this will not be a DK situation where it strings out for 9 subpar years. I think it will either get fixed, or we move on to the next great hope in the next year. It's just too much angst to worry about it.
Last edited by UMassHoops on Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: State of the program

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:17 pm

Juice Stand wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:06 pm McCall didn't have a clue what he wanted to do in his first two years here ...
I think he very much had a clue as to what he wanted to do. I don't think that was a problem. The problem is that it didn't work out. Now he's trying something different.

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Re: State of the program

Post by NilesGold » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:54 pm

^ And not everything he did was a disaster, Pierre, Diallo, and Keon have been good, and Chatman has at least shown some flashes.

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Re: State of the program

Post by vanmeter » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:46 pm

I do not think there is any objective way to look at what happened the last 2 years (and even longer) as a s__t show.
The hope is now in year 3 with Bergeron and the Woodstock crew that next year will be decidedly different.

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Re: State of the program

Post by Slapthefloor93 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:48 pm

Sy is a long term project - just wasn't strong enough last year to be a force inside. He got bullied a lot of the time, but his touch, athleticism, and leaping ability to make me think that he will eventually be an all-conference player as an upperclassman when he's more filled out and confident. This season I expect him to be solid but still not quite there yet body-wise enough to dominate. 7 points, 6 rebounds or something to that tune. Solid role player territory.

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Re: State of the program

Post by 69MG » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:01 pm

78 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:29 pm I may be one of the few who thinks this, but with Laurent now gone, I don’t see how with 8 freshmen next year this team wins more than 15 games.
It's not as bad as you think. :) We will only have 7 freshmen next year unless someone else transfers and from what I have heard everyone else is staying. We have 6 players remaining: Diallo, Pierre, Chatman, Baptiste, Clergeot and KTM.

As others have said, we will be asking a lot of some of the freshmen coming in and there is really no way to judge how well they will perform.

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Re: State of the program

Post by vanmeter » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:25 pm

I would suggest my aforementioned s__t show started after the 14/15 season. 2 competent players who seemed to me to be good team players (Lalanne and Esho) graduated. Nothing significant was added to the team which still hadTre Davis and Jabari's Hinds productive players with seemingly good team attitudes. Derek, perhaps sensing that he had to turn the program around added Greshem, Jarreau, Baldwin, Flowrers, and McLean. This was a group that either may have talent but seemed to not nesh well. In my opinion many did not fit with team culture. All, but McLean lasted one year. McCall did the best he could with what he had. I am convinced that the losses of both Hines and CJ Anderson who had a good influence on the team as, even though not terribly talented, they were team players and the type of culture players you need. They graduated or left and the team was essentially left to Pipkins, who,while talented,was admittedly playing the string out so he could graduate and play his last season elsewhere. Then add in 5 transfers, most save Clergeot, lacked the team culture that McCall wanted to develop. With the bulk of them not playing for the team or culture and without upperclass leadership from a Hines or CJ Anderson around one can see how there are issues that would arise. I think we can look 4 or even 5 years of mistakes by both Kellogg andMCCall that have put us in the place we are at now. We can only hope that those coming in have both talent and attitude to elevate this team. Hopefully a guy like Bergeron who has a proven track record of success at the high school level can help to develop these players both physically and in terms of a defining culture that has been going downhill for the past 5 or so years.

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Re: State of the program

Post by UMassfan_19 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:54 pm

JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:17 pm
Juice Stand wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:06 pm McCall didn't have a clue what he wanted to do in his first two years here ...
I think he very much had a clue as to what he wanted to do. I don't think that was a problem. The problem is that it didn't work out. Now he's trying something different.
I also think he had to make some hasty decisions because he was working on a short clock to get bodies

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