Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Anything and everything that is UMass Minutemen Basketball.
Almontis
Junior
Posts: 724
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:23 am
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by Almontis » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:41 pm

uz2b-len wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:42 pm I was at the game. I had the impression that Clergeot was the most effective defender on the floor for us and did the most of anyone to disrupt HC's offense. He also plays with tremendous energy. I thought we lost the game when he was sitting on the bench, and I don't understand why Pierre was getting all those minutes in the second half instead of Clergeot.
I agree. Clergeot and KTM are two of our most physically imposing guys at their positions. No idea why KTM wasn't given an opportunity to defend and rebound. He's looked pretty good to me in limited time. As others have mentioned, we need toughness, guys playing with an edge out there.

I don't like Pierre and Cobb on the floor together, and McCall seems to love them both. Won't happen, but I'd like to see more Holloway and Chatman playing together with Laurent, Pierre and Pip. Holloway changes the complexion anyway, just go with a traditionally big lineup and switch it up with a faster lineup, with Laurent as the big.

User avatar
MJatUM
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4416
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:46 pm
Location: Attleboro

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by MJatUM » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:57 am

It all depends on the matchup, but I would almost always rather see a lineup with Laurent at the 5 than with Laurent at the 3. I think Sy has a looooong way to go to earn my trust after this game. I think if they had Baptiste here from day one Sy really could have benefited from a redshirt year. Holloway is what he is - can dominate lesser/smaller teams in short stretches. There are honestly only 2 players I think have earned the right to play 30+ minutes every game: Pipkins and Laurent. From there it should be completely up for grabs based on who is giving you what you need. I think KTM, Hayward and Unique deserve a shot when you get games like this past one where you need something fresh. Would also like to see Tre Wood get some more minutes, his speed is truly game altering..

Marty Peretz
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4082
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:13 am

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by Marty Peretz » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:12 am

MJatUM wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:57 am It all depends on the matchup, but I would almost always rather see a lineup with Laurent at the 5 than with Laurent at the 3. I think Sy has a looooong way to go to earn my trust after this game. I think if they had Baptiste here from day one Sy really could have benefited from a redshirt year. Holloway is what he is - can dominate lesser/smaller teams in short stretches. There are honestly only 2 players I think have earned the right to play 30+ minutes every game: Pipkins and Laurent. From there it should be completely up for grabs based on who is giving you what you need. I think KTM, Hayward and Unique deserve a shot when you get games like this past one where you need something fresh. Would also like to see Tre Wood get some more minutes, his speed is truly game altering..
Agree with pretty much everything in this post. I also would like to see Pip play more at the two with Tre Wood playing the one and pushing tempo. Think that will be easier to do when Baptiste gets here as he allows you to push more.

User avatar
natwam2547
Hall of Fame
Posts: 2105
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:31 pm

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by natwam2547 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:32 am

If D is their problem, and it is, I'm cool with where Hayward is. Pierre and Cobb are long and lean, but don't have the quickness to stay with the opposition on D. Sy is a guaranteed bucket when 1 on 1. Especially when he's going up against a more experienced offensive player. Both him and Diallo have bright futures, but probably won't be seeing much playing time with Baptiste coming on board and McCall going to a shorter rotation in competitive league games. I agree with the comments about Wood and Pip playing together. It's almost like what benefits the C's when both Smart and Irving are on the floor together. KTM should have played more. He would have offered more D help in this game.

Pipkins
Cobb
Pierre
Laurent
Holloway

Wood
Clergeot
Baptiste

Is what you will probably see in league play, with a little of Sy and Diallo sprinkled in. No more than 5-7 minutes each.

User avatar
MajBugman
Senior
Posts: 1742
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Aberdeen, MD

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by MajBugman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:36 pm

Holloway is a huge part of the problem IMHO. His stat line is fool's gold. He can only be on the floor for short spurts either because of conditioning or fouls, which makes it impossible for the offense to get in any kind of flow, and you have Fresh playing big minutes. And, against big men that can stretch the floor, he can't go out and guard him.
Raise the bar, do the minimum.

69MG
Hall of Fame
Posts: 12093
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:07 pm
Location: Western Mass

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by 69MG » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:37 pm

natwam2547 wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:32 am If D is their problem, and it is, I'm cool with where Hayward is. Pierre and Cobb are long and lean, but don't have the quickness to stay with the opposition on D. Sy is a guaranteed bucket when 1 on 1. Especially when he's going up against a more experienced offensive player. Both him and Diallo have bright futures, but probably won't be seeing much playing time with Baptiste coming on board and McCall going to a shorter rotation in competitive league games. I agree with the comments about Wood and Pip playing together. It's almost like what benefits the C's when both Smart and Irving are on the floor together. KTM should have played more. He would have offered more D help in this game.

Pipkins
Cobb
Pierre
Laurent
Holloway

Wood
Clergeot
Baptiste

Is what you will probably see in league play, with a little of Sy and Diallo sprinkled in. No more than 5-7 minutes each.
I hope Baptiste lives up to our expectations. Unless some miraculous defensive transformation takes place with the current roster we need him to be a lot better than he was at Vandy. If that comes to pass, it gives McCall more options. We can go a little bigger if needed with Chatman/Laurent splitting time at the 4 and Laurent moving to the 3 at times. Or we can go small/quick with Baptiste at the 5, Laurent at the 4, Pip and any other 2 guards from the above list.

As for the HC game, as one of my friends said as we were driving home, we have better players but they have a better team.

User avatar
xlgman
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4061
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:59 pm

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by xlgman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:13 pm

Holloway is a defensive liability in man defense. I'd be fine with him playing sparingly. We need a dose of Randall West. Definitely miss Hines inside.
This is the most enjoyable losing season ever!

User avatar
LS71
Hall of Fame
Posts: 8079
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 8:55 pm
Location: Lost in Space

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by LS71 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:49 pm

In the second half, Holloway was called for a flagrant 1, if I remember correctly. I didn't see him doing that I would consider flagrant.

Do any of you know what happened on that play?
"Win without boasting, lose without crying." -- Julius Erving

User avatar
econalum
Hall of Fame
Posts: 2561
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:31 am
Location: Boxborough, MA

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by econalum » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:02 pm

Holloway is not in any kind of shape to play D1 ball. Probably needs to lose 50 pounds.

While his bulk allows him to get position inside, he lacks speed and lateral movement as to be a defensive liability, and his size often costs him 1-2 personal fouls alone for 'leaning into' defenders on O.

He is college basketball's Shamoo , and that is not a good thing.
Feeling entitled is JUST a feeling...

DrG
Senior
Posts: 1978
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 11:02 pm
Location: MA

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by DrG » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:43 pm

I thought that F1 call was bullshit, but his sheer bulk makes him an easy target for the refs.

Online
NilesGold
Hall of Fame
Posts: 8863
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:00 pm

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by NilesGold » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:30 am

econalum wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:02 pm Holloway is not in any kind of shape to play D1 ball. Probably needs to lose 50 pounds.

While his bulk allows him to get position inside, he lacks speed and lateral movement as to be a defensive liability, and his size often costs him 1-2 personal fouls alone for 'leaning into' defenders on O.

He is college basketball's Shamoo , and that is not a good thing.
There's absolutely no need for the last sentence, it just makes you sound like an asshole.

Holloway has his weaknesses on defense, primarily PnR, but right now he's probably our best defensive option at center. KTM plays hard but is limited athletically and is also rather slow. Chatman either isn't strong enough or physical enough to defend the paint... in high school he played PF, so I suspect defending guys in the post who are as big, or bigger than him is a new experience.

Against HC, whenever Holloway wasn't on the floor (and Floyd on HC was) I would've preferred to see KTM out there instead of Chatman. Or, it would've been interesting to see UMass go with a smaller lineup with Laurent at C as I think he might've been able to do an acceptable job defending Floyd in the post and on offense I don't think Floyd would've been able to defend Laurent on the perimeter.

And the F1 call on Holloway was total bs.

User avatar
LS71
Hall of Fame
Posts: 8079
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 8:55 pm
Location: Lost in Space

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by LS71 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:07 am

DrG wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:43 pm I thought that F1 call was bullshit, but his sheer bulk makes him an easy target for the refs.
Feels like referee laziness when he gets called for being big, but that F1 cal was like...WTF? :shock:
"Win without boasting, lose without crying." -- Julius Erving

User avatar
uz2b-len
Hall of Fame
Posts: 11717
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 6:03 pm
Location: Deerfield, MA

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by uz2b-len » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:49 pm

Did people see replays on TV? I didn't even see a foul from the stands.
"All credit to my teammates, all glory to God."-- Chaz Williams

User avatar
InnervisionsUMASS
Hall of Fame
Posts: 17639
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:32 am
Location: Milford, MA
Contact:

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by InnervisionsUMASS » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:26 pm

^

I think he fouled him, but the defenders head was at Holloway's elbow level when holding the ball at chest high. There has to be some level of discretion about the elbow thing in situations like that.
Stop waiting for UMass to do something big and help UMass do something big. - Shades

inthescoop
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4924
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:40 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Game 9, 2018-2019 Holy Cross, 12-4-18

Post by inthescoop » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:17 pm

econalum wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:02 pm Holloway is not in any kind of shape to play D1 ball. Probably needs to lose 50 pounds.

While his bulk allows him to get position inside, he lacks speed and lateral movement as to be a defensive liability, and his size often costs him 1-2 personal fouls alone for 'leaning into' defenders on O.

He is college basketball's Shamoo , and that is not a good thing.
Damn, putting Shamoo in bold really must have made you feel all great and powerful.

Post Reply