2020 Recruiting

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NilesGold
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by NilesGold » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:46 am

JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:30 am So now it is all relative and the players you want to run, in the end, might or might not develop. And, it is up to the staff to make the best decisions for the program, which presumably could mean keeping the roster intact. Finally, for good measure, you’ve returned to a throw away question (that you introduced and have now answered for yourself) about players who failed to develop...yep, up to the staff. THIS is where you end up from your original slam (and absolutely tortured post-by-post shifting) of “quaint sentiment?” Holy, holy shit.
My word choice seems to have triggered you... I don’t consider quaint to be much of an insult, but I’m sorry I offended you. I don’t think my stance has materially changed, I’m sorry that wasn’t clear to you. I’m also not a big fan of running kids off, but unfortunately I think if you want to compete at this level it has become necessary for most coaches in order to stay competitive... hell, Calipari runs kids off all the time at Kentucky.

I trust the coaches to make the necessary decisions, they’re not going to be right 100% of the time, but that’s just the nature of the beast, they know more about the players and the future of the team than we do. But I can still share my personal opinions, and you can disagree with them.

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Carl Spackler
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by Carl Spackler » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:49 am

Do you really believe the coaching staff thinks Kolton is the better player with the higher upside?

Kolton is a glue guy, the kind of kid coaches love to have on their team. Sean went through a rough patch and coach shook up the lineup. He’s averaging nearly 28 minutes a game, that’s starter minutes...don’t get hung up on who’s out there for the opening tip.

JoleonLescottsHair
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:08 am

NilesGold wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:46 am My word choice seems to have triggered you... I don’t consider quaint to be much of an insult, but I’m sorry I offended you. I don’t think my stance has materially changed,
No, not the word choice (although it is about as patronizing as it gets, and I am sure your choice of “triggered” is just as innocent), but what such thinking suggests about your views and your monumental inability to maintain an argument. You have been all over the map while dropping straw men left and right. And your stance has completely changed, i.e. we have essentially ended up at ‘don’t bother with anything I have said, everything is relative, I am not necessarily in favor of running players, it is up to the coaches, player X might be OK.’ That is what has “triggered” me, Junior.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by NilesGold » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:28 am

JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:08 am
NilesGold wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:46 am My word choice seems to have triggered you... I don’t consider quaint to be much of an insult, but I’m sorry I offended you. I don’t think my stance has materially changed,
No, not the word choice (although it is about as patronizing as it gets, and I am sure your choice of “triggered” is just as innocent), but what such thinking suggests about your views and your monumental inability to maintain an argument. You have been all over the map while dropping straw men left and right. And your stance has completely changed, i.e. we have essentially ended up at ‘don’t bother with anything I have said, everything is relative, I am not necessarily in favor of running players, it is up to the coaches, player X might be OK.’ That is what has “triggered” me, Junior.
If you're going to call me junior, do I call you boomer, or old man, is that how this is supposed to work?

My stance on this has nuance, maybe it's my fault for not communicating the entirety of them effectively. These are my opinions, which I will continue to have, even if the staff's actions end up being different... at the same time I have a lot (but not absolute) faith in the staff. I don't like running players off, but unfortunately I think it's necessary to succeed in today's environment, and especially in the current situation if we're going to maximize what the program can accomplish in the limited window we have Tre Mitchell.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by NilesGold » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:38 am

Carl Spackler wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:49 am Do you really believe the coaching staff thinks Kolton is the better player with the higher upside?

Kolton is a glue guy, the kind of kid coaches love to have on their team. Sean went through a rough patch and coach shook up the lineup. He’s averaging nearly 28 minutes a game, that’s starter minutes...don’t get hung up on who’s out there for the opening tip.
I don't know what the staff thinks about Kolton & Sean for the present or future, but Kolton's been the starter for a while now. With the pieces we have (or more the pieces we don't have) sometimes Sean's ability to score & create is needed more than Kolton's ability to defend & run the offense. I suspect that will shift in the future when UMass has better offensive weapons, and Kolton's traits will be more desirable than Sean's... but that's just a guess.

I think Sean could be good, especially at a lower level, as a scoring guard and secondary ball-handler, but I have doubts about him being the primary PG on a really good A10 team. And I could also be proven wrong.

JoleonLescottsHair
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:41 am

NilesGold wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:28 am If you're going to call me junior, do I call you boomer, or old man?
You already have. Try to keep up.

minutefanjsf
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by minutefanjsf » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:43 am

NilesGold wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:28 am
JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:08 am
NilesGold wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:46 am My word choice seems to have triggered you... I don’t consider quaint to be much of an insult, but I’m sorry I offended you. I don’t think my stance has materially changed,
No, not the word choice (although it is about as patronizing as it gets, and I am sure your choice of “triggered” is just as innocent), but what such thinking suggests about your views and your monumental inability to maintain an argument. You have been all over the map while dropping straw men left and right. And your stance has completely changed, i.e. we have essentially ended up at ‘don’t bother with anything I have said, everything is relative, I am not necessarily in favor of running players, it is up to the coaches, player X might be OK.’ That is what has “triggered” me, Junior.
If you're going to call me junior, do I call you boomer, or old man, is that how this is supposed to work?

My stance on this has nuance, maybe it's my fault for not communicating the entirety of them effectively. These are my opinions, which I will continue to have, even if the staff's actions end up being different... at the same time I have a lot (but not absolute) faith in the staff. I don't like running players off, but unfortunately I think it's necessary to succeed in today's environment, and especially in the current situation if we're going to maximize what the program can accomplish in the limited window we have Tre Mitchell.
Recruiting over is not the same as running players off. Recruiting over players is a common aspect of D1 sports especially with the advent of the transfer portal. Players and programs are constantly looking to improve their situation.

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Jackson96
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by Jackson96 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:54 am

I am guessing the proposed new transfer rules are just as much about making it easier for kids transferring out to find new homes without sitting out as it is for kids transferring in not having to sit.

Serious fuckin’ nuance right there.

All of this talk of history has me deeply longing for Anton Brown. You can have your Chaz, your Edgar, your Dk, your Lowe, your whoever else. I’ll take Anton.
"I wrote a column and it went national"

NilesGold
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by NilesGold » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:04 am

minutefanjsf wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:43 am Recruiting over is not the same as running players off. Recruiting over players is a common aspect of D1 sports especially with the advent of the transfer portal. Players and programs are constantly looking to improve their situation.
Recruiting over is the first step. You get the "better" player, and then run off a player (if necessary) to make room. I imagine some coaches are able to do it in more amicable ways than others... Calipari is probably very up front and transparent with players when they sign about what can happen in the future, but he's also got more leverage than most coaches to be able to pull that off and still get commitments.

JoleonLescottsHair
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:25 am

Jackson96 wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:54 am All of this talk of history has me deeply longing for Anton Brown. You can have your Chaz, your Edgar, your Dk, your Lowe, your whoever else. I’ll take Anton.
Damn straight!!!

TheInsider
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by TheInsider » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:44 am

This whole arguement is so quaint

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by 69MG » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:01 pm

After many, many pages of over-recruiting, running off of players, etc. I'm not sure it's as severe as we think.

We start with the 2 original commits (McCrory and Garcia) replacing Djery and Chatman. So far, no harm, no foul.

We add Dyondre so someone has to leave. I'll say it's CJ. He couldn't get on the court this year and he'll have to fight off TJ, Buggs, Cairo and Garcia on top of any guards/wings that return. I won't call it running him off as I think it will be his decision. Over-recruiting, yes.

We will add a big to back up Tre, so someone else has to go. I'll call it for Keon. He's been a real trooper and given 100% every time he was called upon. This will be a chance for him to find a starting spot at a slightly lower conference. Otherwise, he's in the same battle as CJ.

Now it gets a little trickier. IF we land Femi, someone else will have to go. I don't think we will take another guard/wing unless it's a player of Femi's level. I also doubt we will take Fernandes and Femi. We may take Fernandes if we don't land Femi, even though he would have to sit a year. As to who leaves, this is where it gets a bit tougher. It could be any of 4 or 5 players, including Garcia if we get Femi.

Purely speculation on my part but I only see 1 tough call among the 3 players that would have to leave.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by TheInsider » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:10 pm

Keon grad transfer

69MG
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by 69MG » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:35 pm

TheInsider wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:10 pm Keon grad transfer
Yes. I should have mentioned that. He gets to play right away.

minutefanjsf
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by minutefanjsf » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:21 pm

NilesGold wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:04 am
minutefanjsf wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:43 am Recruiting over is not the same as running players off. Recruiting over players is a common aspect of D1 sports especially with the advent of the transfer portal. Players and programs are constantly looking to improve their situation.
Recruiting over is the first step. You get the "better" player, and then run off a player (if necessary) to make room. I imagine some coaches are able to do it in more amicable ways than others... Calipari is probably very up front and transparent with players when they sign about what can happen in the future, but he's also got more leverage than most coaches to be able to pull that off and still get commitments.
Coaches never stop recruiting. You never know when a student will transfer or not make adequate progress in the classroom. Running someone off to me would be pulling the scholarship. My guess is any player on a team wants PT. If they aren’t getting the PT they think deserve they will leave on their own. Can’t sign more players than you ships for.

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