2020 Recruiting

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NilesGold
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by NilesGold » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:28 pm

^ I'd argue most of those teams had pieces around the PG that were very good, which played a big role in their success. I like some of the pieces around Tre Mitchell, but I don't know if it's enough to make the NCAAT without an upgrade at PG, and in my opinion PG is our weakest link... hence upgrading at PG should be a priority.

Being a good PG is about more than stats, I don't even care that Kolton's stats are bad and he doesn't even score 2 points a game, the real issue is that he isn't even a threat to score. And Sean's biggest problems are defense and an inability to run the offense efficiently - things that don't really show up in the boxscore.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:24 pm

^ other than DK and Padilla (in the most general terms) I didn’t list any stats to make my point and I have no idea what “pieces around PG” means versus the history of those teams or anything I wrote or referenced. You have made one continuous argument: that new point guards are needed and the guys we are recruiting are better than what we have. Ok. That’s a position and perhaps not a terribly unreasonable one. But you really should stick to that basic point because you are failing miserably when the conversation moves elsewhere, which in this case is my quaint sentimentality and what we might learn from “a bunch of seasons,” you know, before players and coaches changed.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by UMassfan_19 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:54 pm

DanaDingle3 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:00 pm I'm becoming less concerned with landing another "big."

A lineup of Femi, McCrory, Dominguez, Santos, and Walker could provide a lot of length, quickness, and spacing, which is where the game is, anyway.

Resting Mitchell with a bunch of wings and big guards actually sounds better to me.
This is definitely a way I could see us going but I rather not be always looking steal minutes for tre. I’m more worried about if he gets into foul trouble and you need 10+ minutes without him on the floor

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by Floyd » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:08 pm

One thing I am looking forward to next season is seeing the defensive intensity this team should have. Garcia & McCrory are touted to be excellent, hardnosed defenders, Preston really digs in, Kolton defends very well, Samba & Dibaji challenge everything, and Tre has a knack for getting timely blocks & rebounds. We should have many interchangeable pieces to keep the pressure on and really try to be a lockdown team. Would love to see that
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:24 pm

Floyd wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:08 pm One thing I am looking forward to next season is seeing the defensive intensity this team should have. Garcia & McCrory are touted to be excellent, hardnosed defenders, Preston really digs in, Kolton defends very well, Samba & Dibaji challenge everything, and Tre has a knack for getting timely blocks & rebounds. We should have many interchangeable pieces to keep the pressure on and really try to be a lockdown team. Would love to see that
Agree, This team is 11-1 when holding the opposition to under 70. Only loss was against Virginia.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by Floyd » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:27 pm

Wow, thats a good stat.
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by NilesGold » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:16 pm

JoleonLescottsHair wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:24 pm ^ other than DK and Padilla (in the most general terms) I didn’t list any stats to make my point and I have no idea what “pieces around PG” means versus the history of those teams or anything I wrote or referenced. You have made one continuous argument: that new point guards are needed and the guys we are recruiting are better than what we have. Ok. That’s a position and perhaps not a terribly unreasonable one. But you really should stick to that basic point because you are failing miserably when the conversation moves elsewhere, which in this case is my quaint sentimentality and what we might learn from “a bunch of seasons,” you know, before players and coaches changed.
Pieces around PG = other players, i.e. SG, forwards, centers

I think the idea that we should keep anyone for as long as they want to be at UMass is quaint, because it sounds like something I'd expect an older fan to say. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think most fans and ADs have a lot of patience for program building anymore, a lot of coaches that can't deliver quickly get fired.

You threw out several seasons where the team was successful with PGs who developed during their time at UMass, but you didn't acknowledge that players also will often fail to develop into good A10 players, whether they stayed at UMass or go elsewhere... like David Gibbs, Gary Correia and Daryl Traynham. I'm not in favor of counting on Kolton/Sean significantly elevating their game in the few years we have of Tre Mitchell.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:46 am

Your entire point has been that we need better point guard play, not “pieces.” Now you are saying it is the pieces that make the point guard. So I guess as long as we have Tre Mitchell, upgrading at point really doesn't matter now does it?

“Keep anyone who wants to stay at UMass.” Yes, because I have made it clear that I prefer a feel good team of walk-ons over all else! Man, this can be discouraging. I have stated if there is good team chemistry I favor keeping a roster intact over booting players based on spec. I am not arguing for security of tenure. But sure, this is all something an older fan might say. Ok, junior, fair enough. I mean, you have proven you don’t care or know shit about the program’s history, so I’m guessing you’re a real youngster!

No, I didn’t cite players who failed to develop. I don’t need to do that. That’s not the issue. Of course there have been such players, but, once AGAIN, that’s not the discussion. I demonstrated that we have had successful teams with point guards that you would have almost certainly wanted to recruit over. Keep throwing out straw men.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by NilesGold » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:38 am

^ PG is our weakest link, and would likely be the easiest/best probability of success to upgrade. That doesn't mean we can't be good with Kolton/Sean, because I think we have good pieces around them, especially Tre, but good is a relative term. Without Femi/Fernandes would we be an NIT team instead of an NCAAT team? Would we lose in the NCAAT vs winning a game or two?

My point in mentioning players that failed to develop, is that Kolton/Sean could fall into that category (or not). It's the coaches job to try and determine who to keep & continue to develop, and who to cut loose.

I'd like to keep Kolton (over Sean) if we can, I think he can develop and be a fine 2nd or 3rd string PG on a really good team. At the end of the day, if McCall decides to cut Kolton & Sean loose and add Femi & Fernandes, I trust their decision is in the best interests of the program.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by Worcester_To_Amherst » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:12 am

You can call it quaint but I think a lot of the fans wouldn’t appreciate running Sean East off the team when he has a great chance at making all rookie team.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by Worcester_To_Amherst » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:20 am

Also, I completely understand the point your making Niles and I’m not even going to say it’s wrong. We all want the best team possible. But sometimes getting the best possible player isn’t the best move.

We’re not talking about a fantasy football roster or even a professional sports team. Runnings guys off the team has effects beyond the roster. It can alienate recruiting bases, earn a coach a bad reputation, hurt team morale, make the rest of the team question the loyalty of the staff to them, etc etc.

I’m with you in that I trust the staff to make the right moves when the time comes. I’d love to get more talent at PG. But it’s important to remember we’re dealing with kids and their lives. If a kid doesn’t have the talent for the league (like maybe CJ) that’s one thing. But Sean East is already a decent A10 level player and he could become a good one. It can hurt future recruiting when another team’s coach tells a recruit how MM ran kids off the team and can do the same to you.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by Floyd » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:52 am

As I've said all year, I'm a big Sean East fan and I think he will develop into a very good player here. I'd be bummed if he left

I think we're a little overstocked on the wing, but maybe thats the way they want to go. I'd really like Femi here, so they have some moves to make if they want to add more guys
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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by Carl Spackler » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:56 am

I’m really surprised that some people here think PG is the weakest link on this year’s team....PG is the most important position so maybe that is the reason for your opinions but I firmly believe Sean East is a starting A10 PG. Is he inconsistent as a freshman? Hell yes. Has he shown the ability to create, distribute, score off the bounce in a variety of creative ways, knock down jumpers, make fts consistently? Hell yes.
This kid can play, let’s see how serious he is about improving all facets of his game....he’s got some innate instincts with the ball in his hand that you can’t teach.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by JoleonLescottsHair » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:30 am

NilesGold wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:38 am ^ PG is our weakest link, and would likely be the easiest/best probability of success to upgrade. That doesn't mean we can't be good with Kolton/Sean, because I think we have good pieces around them, especially Tre, but good is a relative term. Without Femi/Fernandes would we be an NIT team instead of an NCAAT team? Would we lose in the NCAAT vs winning a game or two?

My point in mentioning players that failed to develop, is that Kolton/Sean could fall into that category (or not). It's the coaches job to try and determine who to keep & continue to develop, and who to cut loose.

I'd like to keep Kolton (over Sean) if we can, I think he can develop and be a fine 2nd or 3rd string PG on a really good team. At the end of the day, if McCall decides to cut Kolton & Sean loose and add Femi & Fernandes, I trust their decision is in the best interests of the program.
So now it is all relative and the players you want to run, in the end, might or might not develop. And, it is up to the staff to make the best decisions for the program, which presumably could mean keeping the roster intact. Finally, for good measure, you’ve returned to a throw away question (that you introduced and have now answered for yourself) about players who failed to develop...yep, up to the staff. THIS is where you end up from your original slam (and absolutely tortured post-by-post shifting) of “quaint sentiment?” Holy, holy shit.

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Re: 2020 Recruiting

Post by NilesGold » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:35 am

Carl Spackler wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:56 am I’m really surprised that some people here think PG is the weakest link on this year’s team....PG is the most important position so maybe that is the reason for your opinions but I firmly believe Sean East is a starting A10 PG.
He doesn’t even start over Kolton Mitchell. My opinion, Sean’s defense and inability to efficiently run the offense will always be problematic.

Based solely on what I’ve seen, I’d rather roll with Kolton and hope he can improve his offense, than banking on Sean improving his D and PG ability.

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